|
Post by avfo on Jan 26, 2021 14:34:12 GMT
Statement from WST -
The Board of the Wrexham Supporters Trust has this morning issued the following statement, regarding last week’s National League meetings with Member Clubs.
'As you may be aware, last week the National League held meetings with Member Clubs regarding the Government’s Winter Survival Package.
At the request of the National League’s interim General Manager Mark Ives, the board of the Wrexham Supporters Trust considered the following options:
1. The operation of a Club Loan process through Sport England
2. The operation of a National League loan to be distributed to each club
3. A suspension the 2020/21 National League season
The WST wishes to inform members that after discussion at a board meeting last week, option two was the favoured choice. The board also voted in favour of continuing the current National League season.
Representatives of our prospective new owners are also in full agreement with these decisions.'
Statement issued by Dagenham MD and National League board member Stephen Thompson, -
To All Supporters, Players & Staff.
'It is some months since I have given an update but in light of recent media reports I feel now is the right time to pen another.
Firstly, I hope that you are all keeping as well as possible under the circumstances and importantly as safely as you can. The rapid roll out of the vaccine is giving us all hope and there certainly appears to be signs of light at the end of the tunnel but after the government updates on Friday the end of this tunnel may be still some way off, it is hard to tell.
With regards to the situation for Dagenham & Redbridge FC, and that of the Vanarama National League, it is my personal opinion that we are in a very perilous position, probably even more precarious than anytime since the start of this pandemic. The decision of the Department for Digital, Culture, Media & Sport (DCMS) not to continue with grant funding has been a severe blow to our League. Instead, they are asking us to mortgage our future by taking out loans.
In late September / early October of last year we were all, and still are, very grateful to the Government and DCMS for channelling a three-month grant package of £10 million via Camelot. This funding hailed at the time as a saviour of the 66 community clubs of the National League which was to allow them to continue playing behind closed doors (BCD) and functioning within their communities.
However, even with this support it hasn’t been easy. I know first-hand how hard it has been for players, staff and volunteers to function under the very strict protocols imposed on all of us around training and games. In addition, the constant breaks in play due to different clubs going into complete isolation at times is hard to manage and that is on top of the individual players and staff who have been required to self-isolate due to NHS Track & Trace regulations. I am sure many of you will empathise with this. There were also the huge logistical problems that clubs faced trying to keep engaged with their supporters throughout the campaign to date, not least with the logistical problems we all faced trying to set up our own streaming services from scratch in just a matter of weeks. Despite all of these challenges, all of the clubs in the league’s three divisions have stoically stepped up to the plate and in the true traditions of non-league football just got on with it. We should all feel extremely proud.
However, all the good intentions of the Government, DCMS, Camelot, the Vanarama National League and their players, staff, volunteers and supporters and not forgetting the initial £10 million now look to have been wasted just as that “light at the end of the tunnel” that I mentioned earlier is in sight.
Whilst no one ever thought we would be in January still faced with having to play BCD, this matter was considered by the authorities back in October / November and when the final details of the package were concluded at a meeting between the DCMS, Football Association & the National League in November, it was clearly the expectation that in the event that supporters were still not allowed back come January the support package of grants would be continued.
It is inconceivable to consider that senior Government figures and indeed government Ministers felt that whilst grants were the only way that the 66 community clubs were going to be able to start the season, but that if the situation were to continue then they would be able just to borrow money to conclude their season. It is just not rational!
The fact is that our clubs and our league are just not big enough to take on a multi-million-pound loan to enable them to carry on playing. Already most clubs are still relying on financial support from their members and Directors and to add to this burden is just impossible.
The reason I said at the start that the clubs are in a more perilous position than at any time in the past 10 months is because all our clubs signed players in September and October on the basis that grant funding was available. These contracts will run at least until the end of May and many beyond. Clubs now have vast commitments they would not have had if the grant funds had not been given and the season had not started. Even with ‘furlough’, the top up payments and National Insurance & Pension contributions will be too much for some of the clubs to survive.
Perversely it has been calculated that if our league is stopped and clubs place all their players & staff on furlough the furlough payments will exceed the grant funding requested. How can that be economically sane? I know it is a crazy world but that is the economics of Alice in Wonderland.
Our League has asked all its clubs to contact their MP’s to lobby the Secretary of State for the DCMS requesting him to reconsider his decision and I have written to five of our local MP’s and I am pleased that Jon Cruddas, Andrew Rosindell and Sam Tarry have all written in support of our plea.
In addition I am asking all of our supporters, and indeed all football supporters throughout the country, to contact their local MP’s and even the DCMS directly to try and persuade the Government to support the 66 community clubs that make up the National League.
If we deserved your support back in October then surely we deserve your support now.
Please don’t let your local clubs die.'
Stephen Thompson MBE
Managing Director - Dagenham & Redbridge FC
I find the use of the term ' expectation' potentially revealing. It suggests to me that the NL board have based their actions purely on an assumption, rather than any agreement - written or otherwise, that money in the form of grants would continue to be forthcoming.
|
|
|
Post by glosblue on Jan 26, 2021 14:57:52 GMT
Good to see how our lovely chums from over the border are prepared to throw their fellow clubs under the bus. Presumably old twinkly-eyes (can he actually act? Every part is the same...) will just flog a bit more gin and they'll be fine.
They might be en route to becoming a 'global force' (I'll believe it when I see it), but they're acting pretty reprehensibly here.
|
|
|
Post by muffinthemule on Jan 26, 2021 16:10:01 GMT
It will take the £2M+ to bring their shithole of a ground upto current desired standards
|
|
|
Post by combover on Jan 26, 2021 16:18:22 GMT
Good to see how our lovely chums from over the border are prepared to throw their fellow clubs under the bus. Presumably old twinkly-eyes (can he actually act? Every part is the same...) will just flog a bit more gin and they'll be fine. They might be en route to becoming a 'global force' (I'll believe it when I see it), but they're acting pretty reprehensibly here. Global force? I thought it was Global farce!!!
|
|
|
Post by agl on Jan 26, 2021 16:30:45 GMT
Not much sympathy for Dagenham either. Poorly supported club which did very nicely out of the original bail out and whose chairman is on the NL board which arranged the grossly unfair carve up.
|
|
|
Post by jedthehumanoid on Jan 26, 2021 16:59:23 GMT
Haven't the National League taken option 2 off the table now? Makes the WST's preferred choice moot.
|
|
|
Post by chesterken on Jan 26, 2021 18:29:55 GMT
Haven't the National League taken option 2 off the table now? Makes the WST's preferred choice moot. I thought the same as you.
|
|
|
Post by avfo on Jan 26, 2021 20:07:01 GMT
Courtesy of BBC Sport - National League chiefs are due to speak with clubs this week on a vote that could scrap the rest of this season. The government has told the league that the £11m funding to cover expenses from January to March is in the form of loans not grants. An overwhelming majority of the 66 clubs say they will not accept loans.
The number of clubs willing to continue playing despite receiving virtually no income is likely to be so small that continuing the season will be unviable.The Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS) has already said claims that it has gone back on grant funding promises are "untrue". Officials and clubs have tried to exert pressure on the government, but there is no indication its stance is going to change. Unless it does, it appears there will be little option other than to terminate the three leagues - the National League, National League North and National League South - which one well-placed source saying the league is "in a mess". National League North and South are both currently paused for two weeks, while the National League is continuing for the moment. At the centre of the issue is the discrepancy between the National League and DCMS versions of a key meeting around the whole funding issue. When they agreed to start the season in October, National League clubs thought a promise of funding, which started with £10m from the National Lottery for the period up to the end of December, was to cover the entire season, not just the first third of it. However, after speaking to numerous sources about the key conversations that did take place between government officials and representatives from the National League and Football Association, BBC Sport understands that neither the words 'grants' or 'loans' were used - and that differing interpretations have been put on the phrase 'future funding'.The National League believed that would be a continuation of the National Lottery agreement, with clubs acting as a promotional vehicle, or a central grant. It says clubs would not have even started the league had they known it would involve loans. DCMS rejects that view and feels the £11m on offer is upholding its funding pledge. It is understood National League board members and FA officials were aware of the impending problem in early December, before the third and final installment of the £10m paid to clubs - the format of which has itself been the subject of major controversy and an independent review by former FA chairman David Bernstein. Some of the findings of the review have been described as "unworkable" by more than one National League official. But Bernstein was furious when the recommendations - specifically around the allocation of money - were ignored and called the review pointless. It had been anticipated funding would be allocated according to average crowd size. But the National League board decided to change this at a late stage, reducing the anticipated amount received by some clubs by thousands of pounds.
The government reacted with disappointment to this, although as Camelot, the National Lottery organiser, is not a public company, it opted not to step in. A number of clubs who lost out significantly have threatened legal action against the National League, which, it is understood, was preparing to amend the payment allocation in January, having decided not to do so in December on legal advice because Bernstein's review was released so close to the next payment date. Helen Grant MP referred to the situation in a statement to MPs on Tuesday afternoon, saying the National League's distribution model was "flawed", adding "the botch has left many National League clubs in dire financial circumstances". www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55818377
|
|
|
Post by agl on Jan 26, 2021 21:10:10 GMT
Courtesy of BBC Sport - National League chiefs are due to speak with clubs this week on a vote that could scrap the rest of this season. The government has told the league that the £11m funding to cover expenses from January to March is in the form of loans not grants. An overwhelming majority of the 66 clubs say they will not accept loans.
The number of clubs willing to continue playing despite receiving virtually no income is likely to be so small that continuing the season will be unviable.The Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS) has already said claims that it has gone back on grant funding promises are "untrue". Officials and clubs have tried to exert pressure on the government, but there is no indication its stance is going to change. Unless it does, it appears there will be little option other than to terminate the three leagues - the National League, National League North and National League South - which one well-placed source saying the league is "in a mess". National League North and South are both currently paused for two weeks, while the National League is continuing for the moment. At the centre of the issue is the discrepancy between the National League and DCMS versions of a key meeting around the whole funding issue. When they agreed to start the season in October, National League clubs thought a promise of funding, which started with £10m from the National Lottery for the period up to the end of December, was to cover the entire season, not just the first third of it. However, after speaking to numerous sources about the key conversations that did take place between government officials and representatives from the National League and Football Association, BBC Sport understands that neither the words 'grants' or 'loans' were used - and that differing interpretations have been put on the phrase 'future funding'.The National League believed that would be a continuation of the National Lottery agreement, with clubs acting as a promotional vehicle, or a central grant. It says clubs would not have even started the league had they known it would involve loans. DCMS rejects that view and feels the £11m on offer is upholding its funding pledge. It is understood National League board members and FA officials were aware of the impending problem in early December, before the third and final installment of the £10m paid to clubs - the format of which has itself been the subject of major controversy and an independent review by former FA chairman David Bernstein. Some of the findings of the review have been described as "unworkable" by more than one National League official. But Bernstein was furious when the recommendations - specifically around the allocation of money - were ignored and called the review pointless. It had been anticipated funding would be allocated according to average crowd size. But the National League board decided to change this at a late stage, reducing the anticipated amount received by some clubs by thousands of pounds.
The government reacted with disappointment to this, although as Camelot, the National Lottery organiser, is not a public company, it opted not to step in. A number of clubs who lost out significantly have threatened legal action against the National League, which, it is understood, was preparing to amend the payment allocation in January, having decided not to do so in December on legal advice because Bernstein's review was released so close to the next payment date. Helen Grant MP referred to the situation in a statement to MPs on Tuesday afternoon, saying the National League's distribution model was "flawed", adding "the botch has left many National League clubs in dire financial circumstances". www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55818377I'll just summarise that: it's an absolute shit show.
|
|
|
Post by devadiva on Jan 26, 2021 22:04:11 GMT
That’s putting it kindly ^
|
|
|
Post by weareblues on Jan 27, 2021 13:29:14 GMT
Hereford tweeted this before
|
|
|
Post by Wortleyblue on Jan 27, 2021 13:34:06 GMT
Hereford tweeted this before How can they say that when they haven't agreed funding with the clubs
|
|
|
Post by dc2cfc on Jan 27, 2021 13:55:35 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Wortleyblue on Jan 27, 2021 14:19:56 GMT
Surely we have to apply for the grant being fan owned with no sugar daddy must put us in a good position prove loans are not affordable
|
|
|
Post by waggoner on Jan 27, 2021 14:20:32 GMT
By my interpretation of this we WOULD be able to access grants based on the criteria. 1) We are fan owned and as a cooperative the only money we can get is via fans through the gate, we are denied this because of Govt measures against social mixing. 2) Unlike other clubs we are not owned or run by a rich benefactor who can put money in to bridge the gap. 3) Our constitution does not allow us to take debts on as loans. It would not be fair to expect us to change (nor possible) for us to change things bearing in mind that we meet the ruling covering grants. So IMHO we meet the qualifying rules on grants rather than loans.
|
|
|
Post by happyclapper52 on Jan 27, 2021 14:33:26 GMT
What a mess ! Presume majority of NLN North and South will apply for grants. Imagine how long it will take to consider each application sufficiently As each verdict is arrived at can see any clubs being rejected a grant then having no choice but to finish their season one by one ? Chaos !
|
|
|
Post by agl on Jan 27, 2021 14:34:28 GMT
On the face of it this looks hopeful...it says applications will be processed quickly. Nothing to lose by applying.
|
|
|
Post by agl on Jan 27, 2021 14:41:06 GMT
What a mess ! Presume majority of NLN North and South will apply for grants. Imagine how long it will take to consider each application sufficiently As each verdict is arrived at can see any clubs being rejected a grant then having no choice but to finish their season one by one ? Chaos ! I might be reading too much into this but to me it looks like DCMS are just covering their arses. By phrasing it like this they can claim they haven't done a U turn, plus weed out clubs that did well from the initial bail out. There's also scope to turn down clubs that have spent stupidly during the pandemic. I think we have run a pretty tight ship (only Askew in but more than balanced by the sale of Taylor). If we don't qualify for a grant then I doubt any club will
|
|
|
Post by glosblue on Jan 27, 2021 14:42:18 GMT
If we do apply for a grant, do we know who assesses it?
|
|
|
Post by dc2cfc on Jan 27, 2021 14:46:31 GMT
If we do apply for a grant, do we know who assesses it? Hopefully the DCMS, wouldn't trust the national league with a £1 !
|
|
|
Post by superman on Jan 27, 2021 14:50:07 GMT
On the face of it nothing has changed. How can the National League restart NLN and NLS without further consultation. Unless of course “reassurances” have been given AGAIN. Wouldn’t be surprising if some clubs said stuff your loan/grant scheme and refuse to restart.
|
|
|
Post by agl on Jan 27, 2021 14:51:42 GMT
No way will the discredited NL board get a sniff...seems to be the Football Foundation, which is described as a Premier Lg, FA and govt charity that will administer this.
|
|
|
Post by dc2cfc on Jan 27, 2021 15:01:29 GMT
I can see these grants being just available for paying monthly bills such as electricity/rent/water etc. Will more then likely be the furlough to pay for wages
Can only really see the season beingL - Null and void - Suspended until crowds back in (Whenever that might be!) - PPG and play offs - no relegation
Such a shame as the team are doing so well atm!
|
|
|
Post by lincolnexile on Jan 27, 2021 15:09:57 GMT
This is total b@ll@ks. So every club in the National League Premier, North and South apply for a grant, which they will, including Wrexham who are just about to be gifted £2M, York who have just picked up a massive windfall sell on clause, Chesterfield who have just signed two more goalkeepers so that the two they've already got don't get lonely, as well as all the other deserving cases. How long will it take for the highly efficient National League to process these applications? Obviously they'll process Boreham Wood first and no doubt that'll be £5M of the pot gone in one foul swoop.
So while the National League is pondering all these applications we are instructed to restart the season. What happens then when the National League turns round and says they've looked at our application and unfortunately all the available money has gone to more deserving cases so tough shit. Meanwhile we're 4 weeks further down the line losing money hand over fist.
All the clubs should get together and tell them that they'll consider whether they'll restart the season when the grant money has been allocated, and no doubt those who apply and aren't successful will tell them that they can't afford to carry on and the chaos will resume.
Where is the sense in any of this. The Championship, League 1 and League 2 get bailed out by the Premier League. Tiers 3-6 get bailed out by the government and we get offered a f@@king loan, unless we can prove that we are financially destitute. The real pisser is that we are not financially destitute at the minute, hopefully, because our board has been careful with what money we have and the fans have raised a shed full of cash to keep the club going. This could mean that the National League board could possibly say that because we're not in heavy debt we go to the back of the queue for grant aid. What sort of a reward is that for a club that's trying to do things the right way?
Tell them to f@@king shove it!!!!!!!!!!
|
|
|
Post by agl on Jan 27, 2021 15:23:34 GMT
This is total b@ll@ks. So every club in the National League Premier, North and South apply for a grant, which they will, including Wrexham who are just about to be gifted £2M, York who have just picked up a massive windfall sell on clause, Chesterfield who have just signed two more goalkeepers so that the two they've already got don't get lonely, as well as all the other deserving cases. How long will it take for the highly efficient National League to process these applications? Obviously they'll process Boreham Wood first and no doubt that'll be £5M of the pot gone in one foul swoop. So while the National League is pondering all these applications we are instructed to restart the season. What happens then when the National League turns round and says they've looked at our application and unfortunately all the available money has gone to more deserving cases so tough shit. Meanwhile we're 4 weeks further down the line losing money hand over fist. All the clubs should get together and tell them that they'll consider whether they'll restart the season when the grant money has been allocated, and no doubt those who apply and aren't successful will tell them that they can't afford to carry on and the chaos will resume. Where is the sense in any of this. The Championship, League 1 and League 2 get bailed out by the Premier League. Tiers 3-6 get bailed out by the government and we get offered a f@@king loan, unless we can prove that we are financially destitute. The real pisser is that we are not financially destitute at the minute, hopefully, because our board has been careful with what money we have and the fans have raised a shed full of cash to keep the club going. This could mean that the National League board could possibly say that because we're not in heavy debt we go to the back of the queue for grant aid. What sort of a reward is that for a club that's trying to do things the right way? Tell them to f@@king shove it!!!!!!!!!! I share your frustrations and scepticism but I think that's a bit of an over reaction. Yes, we need to be careful but if we apply for a grant making it clear that we can't continue without one then what have we to lose? I'm sure our own board won't jeopardize our future by agreeing to resume the season without cast iron assurances. The difference here is that we are in more control as applications will be on an individual basis and we don't have the clowns on the NL board pulling any strings. Perhaps getting ahead of myself but I can't see any figure on what the max grant is for our level...IF we get one we would need to be sure it's enough to cover worst case scenario...ie no fans and no more funding until the end of the season.
|
|
|
Post by onlooker on Jan 27, 2021 15:32:24 GMT
I don't think it's as easy to get a grant as people seem to think. Clubs have to demonstrate they need funds urgently to survive and applications are considered by an independent board. The Sports Minister's full announcement is shown here (courtesy of Hereford's Bulls News) bullsnews.blogspot.com/2021/01/funding-update-from-dcms.html
|
|
|
Post by lincolnexile on Jan 27, 2021 15:34:31 GMT
This is total b@ll@ks. So every club in the National League Premier, North and South apply for a grant, which they will, including Wrexham who are just about to be gifted £2M, York who have just picked up a massive windfall sell on clause, Chesterfield who have just signed two more goalkeepers so that the two they've already got don't get lonely, as well as all the other deserving cases. How long will it take for the highly efficient National League to process these applications? Obviously they'll process Boreham Wood first and no doubt that'll be £5M of the pot gone in one foul swoop. So while the National League is pondering all these applications we are instructed to restart the season. What happens then when the National League turns round and says they've looked at our application and unfortunately all the available money has gone to more deserving cases so tough shit. Meanwhile we're 4 weeks further down the line losing money hand over fist. All the clubs should get together and tell them that they'll consider whether they'll restart the season when the grant money has been allocated, and no doubt those who apply and aren't successful will tell them that they can't afford to carry on and the chaos will resume. Where is the sense in any of this. The Championship, League 1 and League 2 get bailed out by the Premier League. Tiers 3-6 get bailed out by the government and we get offered a f@@king loan, unless we can prove that we are financially destitute. The real pisser is that we are not financially destitute at the minute, hopefully, because our board has been careful with what money we have and the fans have raised a shed full of cash to keep the club going. This could mean that the National League board could possibly say that because we're not in heavy debt we go to the back of the queue for grant aid. What sort of a reward is that for a club that's trying to do things the right way? Tell them to f@@king shove it!!!!!!!!!! I share your frustrations and scepticism but I think that's a bit of an over reaction. Yes, we need to be careful but if we apply for a grant making it clear that we can't continue without one then what have we to lose? I'm sure our own board won't jeopardize our future by agreeing to resume the season without cast iron assurances. The difference here is that we are in more control as applications will be on an individual basis and we don't have the clowns on the NL board pulling any strings. Perhaps getting ahead of myself but I can't see any figure on what the max grant is for our level...IF we get one we would need to be sure it's enough to cover worst case scenario...ie no fans and no more funding until the end of the season. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this. I don't think it's an over reaction at all. It's like your boss coming up to you and saying we've only got enough money to pay half the wages this month and we're not sure if you're going to be one of the lucky ones or not, but we'd still like to carry on working on the off chance that we pay you. Surely it would suicide for any club, who can't survive without a grant, to agree to restart the season unless they are guaranteed the grant money, otherwise they could be just throwing good money after bad.
|
|
|
Post by Churton Blue on Jan 27, 2021 16:01:59 GMT
I can see these grants being just available for paying monthly bills such as electricity/rent/water etc. Will more then likely be the furlough to pay for wages Can only really see the season beingL - Null and void - Suspended until crowds back in (Whenever that might be!) - PPG and play offs - no relegation Such a shame as the team are doing so well atm! From Ollie Bayliss /photo/1 The grants for Steps 3-6 will not cover player wages. You would have to assume something similar for Steps 1 -2.
|
|
|
Post by superman on Jan 27, 2021 16:13:49 GMT
I guess the clue is in the title. “Winter survival package”, and not “Winter continue to play package” . If as for steps 3 to 6, then step 2 will surely stop. Step 1 will be interesting.
|
|
|
Post by agl on Jan 27, 2021 17:22:19 GMT
I share your frustrations and scepticism but I think that's a bit of an over reaction. Yes, we need to be careful but if we apply for a grant making it clear that we can't continue without one then what have we to lose? I'm sure our own board won't jeopardize our future by agreeing to resume the season without cast iron assurances. The difference here is that we are in more control as applications will be on an individual basis and we don't have the clowns on the NL board pulling any strings. Perhaps getting ahead of myself but I can't see any figure on what the max grant is for our level...IF we get one we would need to be sure it's enough to cover worst case scenario...ie no fans and no more funding until the end of the season. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this. I don't think it's an over reaction at all. It's like your boss coming up to you and saying we've only got enough money to pay half the wages this month and we're not sure if you're going to be one of the lucky ones or not, but we'd still like to carry on working on the off chance that we pay you. Surely it would suicide for any club, who can't survive without a grant, to agree to restart the season unless they are guaranteed the grant money, otherwise they could be just throwing good money after bad. I'm not suggesting we resume the season unless we are accepted for a grant. I agree it would be foolhardy to do so..the DCMS release does state that applications will be considered quickly. I wouldn't support restarting without knowing a) we have a grant; b) how much and c) what period does it cover and d) if it doesn't take us through to season end what happens next
|
|