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Post by Churton Blue on Feb 13, 2021 10:53:01 GMT
I part agree with this neighbour. Wrexham have potential to consistently hit 10k in league one exactly on the blue print of Lincoln. Our average attendances are damning really but a reflection of most people following premier league sides whereas Wrexham can pull on being North Wales’ team. I hope we get HONEST investment in our lifetime as I can’t handle this league much longer. For those who are happy fan owned bouncing around NLN then they may as well follow Connahs Quay or Bala. More and more teams are getting money in our league (in normal times) Gloucester, Farsley etc) Only happened once in my life time when we sold the training ground in 1973 for 270k, about 3 million in today's money. By 1981 we were in 1 million in debt allowing for inflation.
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Post by a55cestrian on Feb 13, 2021 11:21:40 GMT
I part agree with this neighbour. Wrexham have potential to consistently hit 10k in league one exactly on the blue print of Lincoln. Our average attendances are damning really but a reflection of most people following premier league sides whereas Wrexham can pull on being North Wales’ team. I hope we get HONEST investment in our lifetime as I can’t handle this league much longer. For those who are happy fan owned bouncing around NLN then they may as well follow Connahs Quay or Bala. More and more teams are getting money in our league (in normal times) Gloucester, Farsley etc) Only happened once in my life time when we sold the training ground in 1973 for 270k, about 3 million in today's money. By 1981 we were in 1 million in debt allowing for inflation. We just have to hope for some form of investment but unfortunately the likelihood is we are going to be waiting some time. It’s just so grim being a NL-NLN yo-yo team. As for the goats the 70’s is a different beast to modern day, and you have to remember they have an insane tool in the form of Ryan Reynolds. Wrexham playing Cardiff or Swansea in championship would attract serious numbers due to the north/south divide at such a high level and the fixture not being played for two decades. CFC and the Goats have never truly had serious owners. The goats could blueprint Lincoln in league one and Brentford in championship. That isn’t pro Goat it’s just the reality of the situation with one of America’s most famous faces owning them. TBF they said the aim is to thrive in league one so they are not getting ahead of themselves as they realistically are a lower end league one team but with the correct marketing could be a top end league one team in terms of attendances. Examples are Oldham,Walsall, Wycombe these clubs just don’t have them high one off attendances that the goats can produce over a season. Do you still walk your dog with Geoff Moss churton Blue? I think your a closet Goat haha
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Feb 13, 2021 11:26:00 GMT
You mention Wycombe. I suggest you take a look at their history and tell me we can’t follow them.
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Post by a55cestrian on Feb 13, 2021 11:29:00 GMT
You mention Wycombe. I suggest you take a look at their history and tell me we can’t follow them. I do believe we can Frank, something we agree on!! I meant that the goats would put them to shame in Championship.
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Post by exiled on Feb 13, 2021 11:29:16 GMT
I part agree with this neighbour. Wrexham have potential to consistently hit 10k in league one exactly on the blue print of Lincoln. Our average attendances are damning really but a reflection of most people following premier league sides whereas Wrexham can pull on being North Wales’ team. I hope we get HONEST investment in our lifetime as I can’t handle this league much longer. For those who are happy fan owned bouncing around NLN then they may as well follow Connahs Quay or Bala. More and more teams are getting money in our league (in normal times) Gloucester, Farsley etc) I think they'll do ok in league 1 7k to 9k. Geography in their case plays a big part. If the club was a few miles east and a Cheshire club they would have struggled the same as us for crowds. And with no back door cup winners cup history to brag about the club would have been very different today. For a fan owned club of our size to achieve league football, lots of changes would have to happen inc the talked about regionalised leagues above, division budgets, salary caps etc.. All these things would help to level the playing field and give us a chance to compete on level terms. Who knows football has to change and all these things might have to happen sooner rather than later.
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Post by cheshireblue on Feb 13, 2021 11:35:53 GMT
There is some bizarre victim blaming towards supporters in this topic, where in reality those who should be blamed for creating this lack of trust for outside investment, are the likes of Gutterman, Smith and most of all, Vaughan.
I am an advocate for the supporter owned model and absolutely believe right now it's the right thing for us. Covid has changed the landscape of non-league football, possibly for decades to come, and thankfully when things do get better, we won't be indebted to somebody who might just walk away at the end of it all, leaving debt and untold issues. To push so vehemently for outside ownership, is an insult to the hours, money and stress put in to the club over the last 10 years; people have sacrificed time with their families to ensure we ALL continue to have a football club to support. We get it, Sealand Road and those glory nights are hard to forget, but equally, modern football would not allow for those evenings to be replicated in the same way. It's all rose-tinted melancholy.
Now, would I personally be adverse to outside investment? Absolutely not. Like many others, I was excited by Stuart Murphy's intervention, but then he used an epidemic to get hold of the club. We were right in the end to question his intentions and when he couldn't answer those questions, he chose to walk away. That tells me everything. Heck, if I won big on the Euromillions I would be down Bumpers Lane the next morning, but would I also expect to be questioned about my intentions and what my long term plans for the club are? Absolutely. That should not change for anybody, regardless of their affiliation with the club.
Wrexham have landed on their feet with the takeover and I won't lie, I am a tad jealous of the excitement around it all for them, but if they really think this will be some long term project (longer than a decade)- Class of '92-esque, for example, they are naive. I know there has been a lot of animosity towards the WST in the past, but I can bet you know, they will be needed if the two Rs, decide to pack up when they realise it starts to take a hell of a lot more than £2 million to get even out of the National League - Average league 2, individual player wages, are over £40,000 per annum.
The CFU continues to play a vital role in the running of the football club and it's important that they always do, even if this mystery and non-existent knight in shining armour comes along. I have no doubt every paid up member would vote for the interests of the club, but honestly, getting so het up about investment that hasn't happened, is bordering on obsessive and looking for an argument in an empty room. If we all got behind the current guise, averaged 2,500 each week at home, it might just make the club more appealing for a millionaire Hollywood actor to buy into and those dreaming of recreating the halcyon days of Sealand Road, they seem to think they were, can have them back.
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Post by Lobster on Feb 13, 2021 11:50:52 GMT
There is some bizarre victim blaming towards supporters in this topic, where in reality those who should be blamed for creating this lack of trust for outside investment, are the likes of Gutterman, Smith and most of all, Vaughan. I am an advocate for the supporter owned model and absolutely believe right now it's the right thing for us. Covid has changed the landscape of non-league football, possibly for decades to come, and thankfully when things do get better, we won't be indebted to somebody who might just walk away at the end of it all, leaving debt and untold issues. To push so vehemently for outside ownership, is an insult to the hours, money and stress put in to the club over the last 10 years; people have sacrificed time with their families to ensure we ALL continue to have a football club to support. We get it, Sealand Road and those glory nights are hard to forget, but equally, modern football would not allow for those evenings to be replicated in the same way. It's all rose-tinted melancholy. Now, would I personally be adverse to outside investment? Absolutely not. Like many others, I was excited by Stuart Murphy's intervention, but then he used an epidemic to get hold of the club. We were right in the end to question his intentions and when he couldn't answer those questions, he chose to walk away. That tells me everything. Heck, if I won big on the Euromillions I would be down Bumpers Lane the next morning, but would I also expect to be questioned about my intentions and what my long term plans for the club are? Absolutely. That should not change for anybody, regardless of their affiliation with the club. Wrexham have landed on their feet with the takeover and I won't lie, I am a tad jealous of the excitement around it all for them, but if they really think this will be some long term project (longer than a decade)- Class of '92-esque, for example, they are naive. I know there has been a lot of animosity towards the WST in the past, but I can bet you know, they will be needed if the two Rs, decide to pack up when they realise it starts to take a hell of a lot more than £2 million to get even out of the National League - Average league 2, individual player wages, are over £40,000 per annum. The CFU continues to play a vital role in the running of the football club and it's important that they always do, even if this mystery and non-existent knight in shining armour comes along. I have no doubt every paid up member would vote for the interests of the club, but honestly, getting so het up about investment that hasn't happened, is bordering on obsessive and looking for an argument in an empty room. If we all got behind the current guise, averaged 2,500 each week at home, it might just make the club more appealing for a millionaire Hollywood actor to buy into and those dreaming of recreating the halcyon days of Sealand Road, they seem to think they were, can have them back. Excellent post. Supporter ownership is what we've got, and for as long as that's the case, be proud of it and get 100% behind it. If and when there's a serious offer on the table, that's the time to have these discussions.
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Post by Churton Blue on Feb 13, 2021 12:01:07 GMT
Only happened once in my life time when we sold the training ground in 1973 for 270k, about 3 million in today's money. By 1981 we were in 1 million in debt allowing for inflation. We just have to hope for some form of investment but unfortunately the likelihood is we are going to be waiting some time. It’s just so grim being a NL-NLN yo-yo team. As for the goats the 70’s is a different beast to modern day, and you have to remember they have an insane tool in the form of Ryan Reynolds. Wrexham playing Cardiff or Swansea in championship would attract serious numbers due to the north/south divide at such a high level and the fixture not being played for two decades. CFC and the Goats have never truly had serious owners. The goats could blueprint Lincoln in league one and Brentford in championship. That isn’t pro Goat it’s just the reality of the situation with one of America’s most famous faces owning them. TBF they said the aim is to thrive in league one so they are not getting ahead of themselves as they realistically are a lower end league one team but with the correct marketing could be a top end league one team in terms of attendances. Examples are Oldham,Walsall, Wycombe these clubs just don’t have them high one off attendances that the goats can produce over a season. Do you still walk your dog with Geoff Moss churton Blue? I think your a closet Goat haha How do you know Geoff Moss lives in Churton ? Anyway I have not got a dog ! I think the issue for Wrexham will be the motivation of the three Directors and the relationships between them. There is no doubt that Rob McElhenny is the driving force and for me he has got Reynolds involved for his greater wealth and current celebrity status. When things go wrong in some way is their relationship strong enough to survive ? The biggest concern, apparently, for those at the club who support the takeover is the somewhat weak relationship between the two. Ker has very strong connections to McElhenney and has been in Wrexham pulling the strings for the documentary. The documentary is funding the project at the moment so it needs to be good TV that has broad appeal which may conflict with footballing decisions ? I can understand the current optimism at Wrexham but suddenly having extra money to throw around creates its own problems and quite often fails to produce the intended effect. Only time will tell how well things work out.
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Feb 13, 2021 12:35:44 GMT
There is some bizarre victim blaming towards supporters in this topic, where in reality those who should be blamed for creating this lack of trust for outside investment, are the likes of Gutterman, Smith and most of all, Vaughan. I am an advocate for the supporter owned model and absolutely believe right now it's the right thing for us. Covid has changed the landscape of non-league football, possibly for decades to come, and thankfully when things do get better, we won't be indebted to somebody who might just walk away at the end of it all, leaving debt and untold issues. To push so vehemently for outside ownership, is an insult to the hours, money and stress put in to the club over the last 10 years; people have sacrificed time with their families to ensure we ALL continue to have a football club to support. We get it, Sealand Road and those glory nights are hard to forget, but equally, modern football would not allow for those evenings to be replicated in the same way. It's all rose-tinted melancholy. Now, would I personally be adverse to outside investment? Absolutely not. Like many others, I was excited by Stuart Murphy's intervention, but then he used an epidemic to get hold of the club. We were right in the end to question his intentions and when he couldn't answer those questions, he chose to walk away. That tells me everything. Heck, if I won big on the Euromillions I would be down Bumpers Lane the next morning, but would I also expect to be questioned about my intentions and what my long term plans for the club are? Absolutely. That should not change for anybody, regardless of their affiliation with the club. Wrexham have landed on their feet with the takeover and I won't lie, I am a tad jealous of the excitement around it all for them, but if they really think this will be some long term project (longer than a decade)- Class of '92-esque, for example, they are naive. I know there has been a lot of animosity towards the WST in the past, but I can bet you know, they will be needed if the two Rs, decide to pack up when they realise it starts to take a hell of a lot more than £2 million to get even out of the National League - Average league 2, individual player wages, are over £40,000 per annum. The CFU continues to play a vital role in the running of the football club and it's important that they always do, even if this mystery and non-existent knight in shining armour comes along. I have no doubt every paid up member would vote for the interests of the club, but honestly, getting so het up about investment that hasn't happened, is bordering on obsessive and looking for an argument in an empty room. If we all got behind the current guise, averaged 2,500 each week at home, it might just make the club more appealing for a millionaire Hollywood actor to buy into and those dreaming of recreating the halcyon days of Sealand Road, they seem to think they were, can have them back. 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
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Post by Si on Feb 13, 2021 12:52:07 GMT
He clearly has no idea of the fitness levels required at this level. How about post covid the club arranges a bleep test between him and George Glendon and we will see who wins? Nice to see Kryten rattled, for the most part I agree with what you had to say Simon in your earlier post. I actually have zero issue with fitness levels. My in intention was to draw sleepy Frank out of his basement. Probably going to start banging on about how well run we are upstairs in the boardroom. I thank everyone who works for free etc that’s our current position but to progress in life money talks end of conversation. You do wonder if Ryan and Rob looked at us as they said they casted their eye over NN but I guess with our depleted attendances in recent years it was a no. We could do with getting Mark Wright on the Wrexham coaching staff and see if he can bang Rob’s wife haha. Didn't realise that you didn't really mean the comment about poor fitness. What people don't often appreciate is the pace of the game at our level, movement off the ball etc. I'd consider myself quite fit but I remember when I used to play 11 a side and most of the time I'd be camped on the left wing blowing out of my arse. Lads at our level really look after themselves these days, and with the GPS vests we have then Bern and Jonno would soon know if anyone wasn't conditioning themselves right.
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Post by waggoner on Feb 13, 2021 13:51:04 GMT
I part agree with this neighbour. Wrexham have potential to consistently hit 10k in league one exactly on the blue print of Lincoln. Our average attendances are damning really but a reflection of most people following premier league sides whereas Wrexham can pull on being North Wales’ team. I hope we get HONEST investment in our lifetime as I can’t handle this league much longer. For those who are happy fan owned bouncing around NLN then they may as well follow Connahs Quay or Bala. More and more teams are getting money in our league (in normal times) Gloucester, Farsley etc) Only happened once in my life time when we sold the training ground in 1973 for 270k, about 3 million in today's money. By 1981 we were in 1 million in debt allowing for inflation. Taking into account the various years and inflation for those years we had 1) 1973/4 Sale of land £270k (£ 1,967,220 in todays money not £3m) 2) 1975 League cup run around £200k profit on that season (£1,172,800 today) 3) 1979 Sold Ian Rush to Liverpool £300k (£1,203,300 today) 4) Runs to the FA cup 5th round in 1976/77 and 1979/80 (made profit on these years too and in 1975/76 when promoted into division 3) During the 70s and early eighties to club did very well out on the pitch millions came into the club. All under private ownership.
So what happened? Well the Shysters showed an interest that's what! Barnes, Morrisons shand, Gutterman, Coco, then Vaughan all saw a way to asset strip the club. We took in todays values over £4.5 in profit between 1974 and 1980 and by 1982 we were skint. Where did it all go? PRIVATE OWNERSHIP that's where! People can say what they want but an owner is not a fan, they are in it to make money pure and simple. I really don't think we have the fight left in us to start again if someone came in promising the earth then leaves us in debt. Fan ownership only. If someone wants to 'invest' that would be great as long as the CFU hold more than 50% of the club
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Post by Churton Blue on Feb 13, 2021 14:32:04 GMT
Only happened once in my life time when we sold the training ground in 1973 for 270k, about 3 million in today's money. By 1981 we were in 1 million in debt allowing for inflation. Taking into account the various years and inflation for those years we had 1) 1973/4 Sale of land £270k (£ 1,967,220 in todays money not £3m) 2) 1975 League cup run around £200k profit on that season (£1,172,800 today) 3) 1979 Sold Ian Rush to Liverpool £300k (£1,203,300 today) 4) Runs to the FA cup 5th round in 1976/77 and 1979/80 (made profit on these years too and in 1975/76 when promoted into division 3) During the 70s and early eighties to club did very well out on the pitch millions came into the club. All under private ownership.
So what happened? Well the Shysters showed an interest that's what! Barnes, Morrisons shand, Gutterman, Coco, then Vaughan all saw a way to asset strip the club. We took in todays values over £4.5 in profit between 1974 and 1980 and by 1982 we were skint. Where did it all go? PRIVATE OWNERSHIP that's where! People can say what they want but an owner is not a fan, they are in it to make money pure and simple. I really don't think we have the fight left in us to start again if someone came in promising the earth then leaves us in debt. Fan ownership only. If someone wants to 'invest' that would be great as long as the CFU hold more than 50% of the club Sorry my bad from doing it on memory. Looked it up a few years ago and the difference between 1973 and the early 80's was 3 million from plus 2 to minus 1. We did spend a lot of money signing players poor players (Barney Daniels, Trevor Birch, Steve Ludlam etc) and building a stand. However attendances were never good enough, we even had a sub 2,000 crowd the season we finished 5th in the third tier. Reg Rowlands could not find a local buyer and the dreadful sequence you mention began. People have a rose tinted view of our support base in those days so only an asset stripper like Barnes wanted the club.
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Post by Churton Blue on Feb 13, 2021 14:46:56 GMT
Nice to see Kryten rattled, for the most part I agree with what you had to say Simon in your earlier post. I actually have zero issue with fitness levels. My in intention was to draw sleepy Frank out of his basement. Probably going to start banging on about how well run we are upstairs in the boardroom. I thank everyone who works for free etc that’s our current position but to progress in life money talks end of conversation. You do wonder if Ryan and Rob looked at us as they said they casted their eye over NN but I guess with our depleted attendances in recent years it was a no. We could do with getting Mark Wright on the Wrexham coaching staff and see if he can bang Rob’s wife haha. Didn't realise that you didn't really mean the comment about poor fitness. What people don't often appreciate is the pace of the game at our level, movement off the ball etc. I'd consider myself quite fit but I remember when I used to play 11 a side and most of the time I'd be camped on the left wing blowing out of my arse. Lads at our level really look after themselves these days, and with the GPS vests we have then Bern and Jonno would soon know if anyone wasn't conditioning themselves right. Current players in Tier 6 are fitter imo than when I started watching Chester in Division 4 in 1972. People do underestimate the pace of the game even down to NPL level.
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Post by gone4eva on Feb 13, 2021 17:11:47 GMT
Do the owners now own the ground itself? Or is it owned by the council? We have that fortunate position which basically saved us from completely collapsing as SV would have sold it if he was able to. I am uncertain what the revenue stream will be for Wrexham going forward. Is it continued funding from the new owners from their earnings via a contract with Netflix? The Duke of Westminster should take us over and organis a similar deal with Netflix. The English Duke V the Hollywood dreamers. The Americans would lap it up. The rivalry would be a great angle. Also the Duke could easily cover any 'losses' whereas the Americans would run out of resources and Wrexham's future wouldn't look too rosy. The setting for 'our' Netflix would also be more appealing...the Dukes estate, royal visits to watch the team...Chester City in all its glory.... I don't know if anyone remembers Brutus the cat that died of Saltney Morrisons fame but I emailed Netflix to see if they fancied picking up the story for some kind of docu-drama. I detailed how my mate has some great drone footage of the area so they could use that and help cut costs. I couldn't find anyone to play Ted Robbins, and I did not want to approach him direct after what happened at Keele Services that time. Long story short, they are a bunch of bastards and never replied. I know a few on here thought I was full of shit when I posted this a few years back but just google 'Brutus Morrisons Chester' and it is all there. RIP Big Guy. Playing with the cat angels now xox Whoever told the Chester Leader / Standard about Brutus he is NOT A BIG CAT and WILL NOT HAVE BEEN SEEN IN FIELDS BY CHESTER I have no idea why they have an obsession over unsourced 'big cat' or 'puma' stories but Brutus is not a big cat nor a puma. The closest he got to that was when he used to be in the personal grooming aisle in Morrisons and used to rub up against the Lynx bottles. I did not see that myself but was told about it, which is probably the amount of firm sourcing the Leader / Standard do now.
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Post by cfcforme on Feb 13, 2021 17:37:35 GMT
For what it's worth, does it have big potential to go tits up in the long term, yes. £2m investment is nothing in that league and guarantees nothing as this tweet demonstrates:
Having said that, in the short to medium term it will be an interesting and probably fun ride to be on for them. Good luck to them, I'll hide my time and piss myself when it all goes wrong.
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Post by inthestand on Feb 14, 2021 11:24:23 GMT
It’s so very strange how you can say that with the likes of us and many other clubs in the NLN / NLS on the brink of catastrophic oblivion by the people who run this piss pot poorly run league..as you say..money doesn’t guarantee anything ...but it sure helps....what have we got..dwindling crowds before Covid, when we start getting normality back again how many will return....?...how many more years are we going to be swimming around in the cess pool of a division ..being beaten by teams who have an average attendance of 300 supporters and twice as much money in the bank..I’ve always been a big supporter of fan ownership..but...it just doesn’t work..especially if the club in question can’t generate enough people power through the gates to make it work financially ..and unfortunately as experienced ..we just can’t !.
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Post by agl on Feb 14, 2021 13:01:25 GMT
We just need a Cup run 😂
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Post by Neil Hunt Nonsense Potter on Feb 14, 2021 15:17:36 GMT
I know Bob Grey was nuts, but as daft as it sounds that is what spurred Lincolns revival under the Cowley brothers. See also Tranmere early 90s. We just seem to fold so easy in Cup games.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2021 15:21:23 GMT
I know Bob Grey was nuts, but as daft as it sounds that is what spurred Lincolns revival under the Cowley brothers. See also Tranmere early 90s. We just seem to fold so easy in Cup games. Really you beat leeds newcastle ran villa close
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Post by cfcforme on Feb 14, 2021 16:27:31 GMT
It’s so very strange how you can say that with the likes of us and many other clubs in the NLN / NLS on the brink of catastrophic oblivion by the people who run this piss pot poorly run league..as you say..money doesn’t guarantee anything ...but it sure helps....what have we got..dwindling crowds before Covid, when we start getting normality back again how many will return....?...how many more years are we going to be swimming around in the cess pool of a division ..being beaten by teams who have an average attendance of 300 supporters and twice as much money in the bank..I’ve always been a big supporter of fan ownership..but...it just doesn’t work..especially if the club in question can’t generate enough people power through the gates to make it work financially ..and unfortunately as experienced ..we just can’t !. Sorry, I missed the demonstration of what I said being "so very strange". Which bit did you disagree with? Oh and I didn't mention our situation, I was talking purely about the Wrexham situation.
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Post by agl on Feb 14, 2021 17:10:58 GMT
I know Bob Grey was nuts, but as daft as it sounds that is what spurred Lincolns revival under the Cowley brothers. See also Tranmere early 90s. We just seem to fold so easy in Cup games. I suppose it was half tongue in cheek but if you look at the glory years it's the cup runs that have sustained the club...1974, of course, but also the run to the 5th round under Alan Oakes. Even getting to round 2 with Burr was a real boost. For whatever reason our cup performances in very recent years have been abysmal. Dunston and Marine were particularly painful. In ye goode olde dayes it helped that we came in at round one! Didn't stop us losing to Penrith, mind😭
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Post by Wortleyblue on Feb 14, 2021 19:23:57 GMT
I know Bob Grey was nuts, but as daft as it sounds that is what spurred Lincolns revival under the Cowley brothers. See also Tranmere early 90s. We just seem to fold so easy in Cup games. I suppose it was half tongue in cheek but if you look at the glory years it's the cup runs that have sustained the club...1974, of course, but also the run to the 5th round under Alan Oakes. Even getting to round 2 with Burr was a real boost. For whatever reason our cup performances in very recent years have been abysmal. Dunston and Marine were particularly painful. In ye goode olde dayes it helped that we came in at round one! Didn't stop us losing to Penrith, mind😭 That to me is still the worst performance I have ever witnessed made worse by my Geordie mate (who I persuaded to join me) giving me earache all the way home
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Post by The Swansway on Feb 15, 2021 8:34:32 GMT
For those who are happy fan owned bouncing around NLN then they may as well follow Connahs Quay or Bala. If you can only manage with League football, perhaps you should try out Crewe or Tranmere?
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Post by waggoner on Feb 15, 2021 11:12:25 GMT
For those who are happy fan owned bouncing around NLN then they may as well follow Connahs Quay or Bala. If you can only manage with League football, perhaps you should try out Crewe or Tranmere? I think that is a very condescending attitude. We all have our own views about where we should be, it is WHERE we are that is the reality that bothers some of our fans. At the moment being a fan owned club works for us. However! the fact is that we have stagnated and quite frankly our average crowds are shit. To be able to attract the best players you need to have money, which won't come off crowds of 1,200-1,900. Why? Well this is the revenue stream we have and it does not raise anything like enough to fund a club aspiring to get into league football. There are a number of ways to raise the cash of course. A) get more fans through the gate. We need around 4,000 a game to give us a chance. In my lifetime we have only averaged over 3,000 a couple of seasons. Why? Well because apart from around 2500 of us, the rest of Chester and district just don't care. One example is; one of the Biggest estates in England is just up Gorse hill. There are over 16,000 living in Blacon. Now i'm not picking on Blacon, it is just an example. The catchment area of Chester is around 130k. Similar the Wrexhams actually. Crewe has a Population of around 80k. yet both Clubs get much higher crowds than us. Why? well their towns actually get behind the Club. B) Change the ownership model. Maybe a 50-50 split or 51-49? We could try putting out feelers to gauge if there is any interested parties out there who would want to invest. I say 'invest' because people just will not put money into a club without at least owning some of it. The problem with us is that too many are looking at Wycombe, Exeter and AFC Wimbledon and saying ''well if they can do it then so can we'' Not on crowds of around 1,500 we won't. Clubs with this level of support who are at the top of the NL are usually having the money topped up by a Sugar daddy. Even when we are at the top of a league we don't get much more than 2,500....and that's when things are going well! C) Go gung ho. Sell up and give total control of the club to an owner/s but take our chances on what it brings..good or bad AKA Wrexham. Not my choice of course, but i can see why the WST and fans decided to go for it, because they know only too well that in the NL however hard you try and however large your crowds are MONEY talks and the Sugar daddies rule the roost
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2021 12:46:32 GMT
For those who are happy fan owned bouncing around NLN then they may as well follow Connahs Quay or Bala. If you can only manage with League football, perhaps you should try out Crewe or Tranmere? Well that’s just childish isn’t it Swansway. Are you the citroen dealer or Stuart in disguise? The man comes here with an agenda every day and if his opinions were that worthwhile he’d still be on the board. Time to go back to your match reports of Connahs Quay v Airbus and leave us all be.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2021 13:10:27 GMT
If you can only manage with League football, perhaps you should try out Crewe or Tranmere? Well that’s just childish isn’t it Swansway. Are you the citroen dealer or Stuart in disguise? The man comes here with an agenda every day and if his opinions were that worthwhile he’d still be on the board. Time to go back to your match reports of Connahs Quay v Airbus and leave us all be. How is your original statement any less childish than the reply? How is your opposition to fan ownership any less of an agenda? Every few months we do this were people say fan ownership doesn't work and we desperately need to be in the football league as if somehow playing Southend and Stevenage will solve all of the clubs problems and make everything better. Nobody is trying to buy the club at the moment. If they did and were serious most people would listen. Constantly bemoaning the fact we're in the National League North and that an investor hasn't come in and magically solved all our problems isn't really helping anything. We have to play the cards we've been dealt, until such time an offer is on the table. For now it's up to us to try and grow and improve the club constant bickering won't help anything.
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Post by exiled on Feb 15, 2021 13:49:43 GMT
If you can only manage with League football, perhaps you should try out Crewe or Tranmere? I think that is a very condescending attitude. We all have our own views about where we should be, it is WHERE we are that is the reality that bothers some of our fans. At the moment being a fan owned club works for us. However! the fact is that we have stagnated and quite frankly our average crowds are shit. To be able to attract the best players you need to have money, which won't come off crowds of 1,200-1,900. Why? Well this is the revenue stream we have and it does not raise anything like enough to fund a club aspiring to get into league football. There are a number of ways to raise the cash of course. A) get more fans through the gate. We need around 4,000 a game to give us a chance. In my lifetime we have only averaged over 3,000 a couple of seasons. Why? Well because apart from around 2500 of us, the rest of Chester and district just don't care. One example is; one of the Biggest estates in England is just up Gorse hill. There are over 16,000 living in Blacon. Now i'm not picking on Blacon, it is just an example. The catchment area of Chester is around 130k. Similar the Wrexhams actually. Crewe has a Population of around 80k. yet both Clubs get much higher crowds than us. Why? well their towns actually get behind the Club. B) Change the ownership model. Maybe a 50-50 split or 51-49? We could try putting out feelers to gauge if there is any interested parties out there who would want to invest. I say 'invest' because people just will not put money into a club without at least owning some of it. The problem with us is that too many are looking at Wycombe, Exeter and AFC Wimbledon and saying ''well if they can do it then so can we'' Not on crowds of around 1,500 we won't. Clubs with this level of support who are at the top of the NL are usually having the money topped up by a Sugar daddy. Even when we are at the top of a league we don't get much more than 2,500....and that's when things are going well! C) Go gung ho. Sell up and give total control of the club to an owner/s but take our chances on what it brings..good or bad AKA Wrexham. Not my choice of course, but i can see why the WST and fans decided to go for it, because they know only too well that in the NL however hard you try and however large your crowds are MONEY talks and the Sugar daddies rule the roost It's a difficult one. No Club could have a better Board than we have. They work hard trying to get more bodies through the gate and are always offering different initiatives,reduced entry free tickets etc. They've also secured the Club the best possible sponsorship deals as well as Grant's and many other revenue streams. And continue to do a brilliant job as have the many volunteers. And deserve the gratitude and respect from all of us But their not miracle workers. The loyal fans have also played their part digging deep into their pockets, also trying to swell the gates bringing a friend or family member that hasn't been befor. In most cases these people aren't convinced and dont become regulars. I've brought family and friends to games, some have enjoyed the experience but not enough to return and become regulars. Level of football main reason. My worry is the older fans that stop coming for whatever reason, aren't being replaced. As you say money is King. What we are able to get through the gates currently is enough to maintain the level of football were at the moment. But what happens in say 5 or 10 years time if the fanbase shrinks to something similar to Altys. Could we still afford National league football as a 100% fan owned club? IMO the modal a club uses is directly linked to the level of football a club is able to play at. For instance would Wycombe be able to play at the level their at, or Swansea using the same modal we do. No as I say it works for us because of the level were at and size of our current fanbase. I'm not saying sell the Club, I wouldn't want that. But we might have to be open minded and adaptable to match whatever our ambitions are. Whether that ultimate goal is the football league or stay at the level were at in non league. I think what I'm trying to say is. We need to be careful that we dont harm ourselves and end up going backwards through our determination to remain 100% fan owned or nothing. And if a miracle happens and an investor were to show up and offer to help the club out. We dont have the attitude give us your money but your not getting anything from us in return. Unfortunately waggoners right the interest just isn't there locally. The important thing now though is all of us that do care about our club continue to support it now through the current difficult times and focus on here and now whatever our views are regarding future direction of the Club.
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Post by brianfelshaw on Feb 15, 2021 14:15:15 GMT
This type of thread pops up every month or so depending on what’s happening (or not happening) around the club.
Akwasi leaves - Sell the club. Lose a game - Sell the club. The W*****m takeover - Sell the club.
Firstly, there’s nothing to sell. Secondly, who wants to own a business with zero chance of making money? Thirdly, what is it we all want? Getting beat off Boreham Wood at home? Travelling to Crawley? Huge home games versus Morecambe and Barrow?
It’s just a constant cyclical conversation whenever another club does something we haven’t. It’s tiring just reading it every few weeks.
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Post by Churton Blue on Feb 15, 2021 14:32:59 GMT
This type of thread pops up every month or so depending on what’s happening (or not happening) around the club. Akwasi leaves - Sell the club. Lose a game - Sell the club. The W*****m takeover - Sell the club. Firstly, there’s nothing to sell. Secondly, who wants to own a business with zero chance of making money?Thirdly, what is it we all want? Getting beat off Boreham Wood at home? Travelling to Crawley? Huge home games versus Morecambe and Barrow? It’s just a constant cyclical conversation whenever another club does something we haven’t. It’s tiring just reading it every few weeks. Just listened to the latest Podcast featuring football finance expert Kieran Maguire. He was discussing the Venky's ownership of Blacburn Rovers. They have pumped in a staggering 190 million since they bought the club 10 years ago. His considered opinion is that outside of a few clubs that are global brands there are only two reasons for buying a football club, vanity and madness.
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Feb 15, 2021 15:00:08 GMT
This type of thread pops up every month or so depending on what’s happening (or not happening) around the club. Akwasi leaves - Sell the club. Lose a game - Sell the club. The W*****m takeover - Sell the club. Firstly, there’s nothing to sell. Secondly, who wants to own a business with zero chance of making money?Thirdly, what is it we all want? Getting beat off Boreham Wood at home? Travelling to Crawley? Huge home games versus Morecambe and Barrow? It’s just a constant cyclical conversation whenever another club does something we haven’t. It’s tiring just reading it every few weeks. Just listened to the latest Podcast featuring football finance expert Kieran Maguire. He was discussing the Venky's ownership of Blacburn Rovers. They have pumped in a staggering 190 million since they bought the club 10 years ago. His considered opinion is that outside of a few clubs that are global brands there are only two reasons for buying a football club, vanity and madness. In the last decade, Blackburn have been relegated twice and spent most of the time anonymously in Championship mid-table. Incredible how modest the returns are on £190 million these days isn't it.
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