I'm a rock roll star
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Post by I'm a rock roll star on Apr 23, 2017 9:50:29 GMT
I think its a given now that the patience of our fan Base has been well and truly tested beyond that of what is acceptable as a poor run of form and what is justification for the sack.
The minority of dissenters are now the vast majority.
We all want the very best for our club but to do this we have to make difficult decisions at times.
I keep reading on here about using the potential Sam Hughes money to pay off Macca which for me seems ludicrous.
These situations can be managed in other ways. A compromise deal can be structured so he doesn't get it all in one go or even place him on gardening leave and continue to pay him monthly. That way you keep the cash flow positive. By doing this you effectively can manage the situation to our benefit rather the handing over a huge lump sum. This leaves Macca to seek other work and should he find some then we would still hold his contract which we could then agree to let him go on vastly reduced terms.
There is no doubt the hastily award of a two year extension is going to cost us but it doesn't have to be as painful as some believe.
What will be disastrous is the detrimental effect of any in decision. Change needs to happen Now everyone of our players will be out of contract shortly. So any incoming manager can if he so wishes start with a clean slate or cherry pick the best and bring in some no doubted needed fresh faces.
Further delays over this decision will effect season ticket sale, merchandising and corporate sales be in hospitality or advertising.
This is not change for changes sake this is about a club in its still infancy making a decision to keep moving forward or falling backwards from something that may take a long time to recover from.
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Post by logic on Apr 23, 2017 10:11:38 GMT
I think its a given now that the patience of our fan Base has been well and truly tested beyond that of what is acceptable as a poor run of form and what is justification for the sack. The minority of dissenters are now the vast majority. We all want the very best for our club but to do this we have to make difficult decisions at times. I keep reading on here about using the potential Sam Hughes money to pay off Macca which for me seems ludicrous. These situations can be managed in other ways. A compromise deal can be structured so he doesn't get it all in one go or even place him on gardening leave and continue to pay him monthly. That way you keep the cash flow positive. By doing this you effectively can manage the situation to our benefit rather the handing over a huge lump sum. This leaves Macca to seek other work and should he find some then we would still hold his contract which we could then agree to let him go on vastly reduced terms. There is no doubt the hastily award of a two year extension is going to cost us but it doesn't have to be as painful as some believe. What will be disastrous is the detrimental effect of any in decision. Change needs to happen Now everyone of our players will be out of contract shortly. So any incoming manager can if he so wishes start with a clean slate or cherry pick the best and bring in some no doubted needed fresh faces. Further delays over this decision will effect season ticket sale, merchandising and corporate sales be in hospitality or advertising. This is not change for changes sake this is about a club in its still infancy making a decision to keep moving forward or falling backwards from something that may take a long time to recover from. More or less you have agreed and expanded on my post on another comment. Excellent comments, put him on gardening ASAP and start looking for a new management team, but the contract details should be agreed by all the board 100% , not just by our CEO , who seems to be responsible for the farcial existing contract !! |
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Post by Blue Skies on Apr 23, 2017 10:54:52 GMT
I think its a given now that the patience of our fan Base has been well and truly tested beyond that of what is acceptable as a poor run of form and what is justification for the sack. The minority of dissenters are now the vast majority. We all want the very best for our club but to do this we have to make difficult decisions at times. I keep reading on here about using the potential Sam Hughes money to pay off Macca which for me seems ludicrous. These situations can be managed in other ways. A compromise deal can be structured so he doesn't get it all in one go or even place him on gardening leave and continue to pay him monthly. That way you keep the cash flow positive. By doing this you effectively can manage the situation to our benefit rather the handing over a huge lump sum. This leaves Macca to seek other work and should he find some then we would still hold his contract which we could then agree to let him go on vastly reduced terms. There is no doubt the hastily award of a two year extension is going to cost us but it doesn't have to be as painful as some believe. What will be disastrous is the detrimental effect of any in decision. Change needs to happen Now everyone of our players will be out of contract shortly. So any incoming manager can if he so wishes start with a clean slate or cherry pick the best and bring in some no doubted needed fresh faces. Further delays over this decision will effect season ticket sale, merchandising and corporate sales be in hospitality or advertising. This is not change for changes sake this is about a club in its still infancy making a decision to keep moving forward or falling backwards from something that may take a long time to recover from. Sadly as someone who thinks the manager has many good qualities I broadly agree with the above. I think his position is now untenable as he has lost the support of the majority of the fan base. He, the Board and the CEO need to recognise this and negotiate a way forward that ends with JM leaving by mutual consent in the best interests of himself and more importantly the best interests of the football club.
I have come to this conclusion with a very heavy heart and appreciate that whatever we do regarding the manager next season could be a very difficult one. However football fans need hope and at the moment that is rather thin on the ground at the Deva.
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Post by Buckley Blue on Apr 23, 2017 11:07:14 GMT
Has Macca lost the support of the majority of the fan base? Granted he's lost the support of the majority of people who can be arsed typing on a forum (that's about 20 then and not all of them go to the matches) and anecdotally their mates and all the people who sit round them (another 100 say). I sort of suspect not. There'll be a lot of people not overly happy with the way things have gone but to be baying for his head, not sure. I suppose we'll find out next Saturday.
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Post by billyw on Apr 23, 2017 15:02:33 GMT
Has Macca lost the support of the majority of the fan base? Granted he's lost the support of the majority of people who can be arsed typing on a forum (that's about 20 then and not all of them go to the matches) and anecdotally their mates and all the people who sit round them (another 100 say). I sort of suspect not. There'll be a lot of people not overly happy with the way things have gone but to be baying for his head, not sure. I suppose we'll find out next Saturday. Well there are 500 missing fans for starters. |
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Post by Buckley Blue on Apr 23, 2017 16:57:34 GMT
Has Macca lost the support of the majority of the fan base? Granted he's lost the support of the majority of people who can be arsed typing on a forum (that's about 20 then and not all of them go to the matches) and anecdotally their mates and all the people who sit round them (another 100 say). I sort of suspect not. There'll be a lot of people not overly happy with the way things have gone but to be baying for his head, not sure. I suppose we'll find out next Saturday. Well there are 500 missing fans for starters. Well at least they won't be calling for his head then |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2017 17:40:43 GMT
And he still says its only a minority wanting him out dear god!! more than a minority jon from what i seen at sutton yesterday!!
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Post by billyw on Apr 23, 2017 18:18:36 GMT
I presume that without the generous contract extension, McCarthy would have been away at the end of the week and we could have felt more optimistic for next season.
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Post by Frustrated on Apr 23, 2017 18:32:31 GMT
I presume that without the generous contract extension, McCarthy would have been away at the end of the week and we could have felt more optimistic for next season. Put him on garden leave and give the club a future. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2017 18:35:54 GMT
I would look to bring in a director of football to help with his workload, and help structure the footballing side of the club (board liaison and advisory, youth/scholars integration to first team, coaching and management roles and CPD training, medical staff, talent ID and recruitment, travel etc).
This needs doing urgently, and could integrate with JM who isn't going anywhere. This could also be a role that could be done part full time in lieu of the wage paid to Tony Allen.
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Post by agl on Apr 23, 2017 18:37:34 GMT
There's probably a few of us who would prefer to see a change, given the choice, but not at any cost. A compromise might be to bring in a new assistant and see how it goes. No doubt there needs to be some sort of shake up. The last four months have been a disaster and we are getting worse. I just don't think we are in a position to be paying off managers with no guarantees that who ever comes in wiil do any better.
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Post by midfieldgeneral on Apr 23, 2017 18:59:27 GMT
I would look to bring in a director of football to help with his workload, and help structure the footballing side of the club (board liaison and advisory, youth/scholars integration to first team, coaching and management roles and CPD training, medical staff, talent ID and recruitment, travel etc). This needs doing urgently, and could integrate with JM who isn't going anywhere. This could also be a role that could be done part full time in lieu of the wage paid to Tony Allen. |
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Post by midfieldgeneral on Apr 23, 2017 19:01:31 GMT
This is similar to what I proposed, on another post, only to be shot down by the usual negative, dickhead comment., so abundant on this forum.
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Post by maccas nutsack on Apr 23, 2017 19:05:19 GMT
Doesn't Iwelomo help out? Director of football and all that?
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Post by Captain Duff on Apr 23, 2017 19:27:19 GMT
Doesn't Iwelomo help out? Director of football and all that? You would think so, because when Macca was assistant under Burr he was doing all sorts in relation to the community side with the youth teams and schools as well as first team training and the like. I honestly don't know what Iwelomo does, when he bothers to turn up that is. |
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Post by hairbandofbendavies on Apr 23, 2017 19:28:44 GMT
The thing is, if Macca's contract had not been extended and it was up at the end of the season - would he get it renewed now?
As he himself says, he's done what the board asked. The issue for me is who is out there that will not cost a fortune (Macca was the cheap option in the summer remember ). Managers lose the faith of the fans but it really does feel as though he's lost the players with that last performance. Working we dug in and were desperately unlucky, yesterday sounded like downing tools.
I don't think we can afford to sack him, though as others have said it's now a HUGE decision for the board and one people shouldn't wish them to rush. Weighing up the cost of sacking him and the damage that will have to our budget, or leave him in charge and pray that he hits the ground running next year, or we will see 1500 attendances become the norm. As others have said, hopefully a regroup in the summer and recruiting an assistant with defensive nouse will get us back to where we were.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2017 19:37:14 GMT
This is similar to what I proposed, on another post, only to be shot down by the usual negative, dickhead comment., so abundant on this forum. Quite a few of them I am afraid. The rights or wrongs of his contract (hindsight is powerful, but remember most agreed with it at the time...) if we paid him off it cpmes off the playing budget. A director of football would share the load, and would give the board a very valuable football people's point of view before making these decisions again. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2017 19:39:48 GMT
The thing is, if Macca's contract had not been extended and it was up at the end of the season - would he get it renewed now? No, but unfortunately it was. Broadly agree with the rest of what you say, but would be reticent to give McCarthy the choice of Assistant after his disastrous choice last time. |
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Post by Derry Blue on Apr 23, 2017 20:01:17 GMT
This is similar to what I proposed, on another post, only to be shot down by the usual negative, dickhead comment., so abundant on this forum. I apologise that your insightful talent is not appreciated by some. |
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Post by Buckley Blue on Apr 23, 2017 20:05:15 GMT
This is similar to what I proposed, on another post, only to be shot down by the usual negative, dickhead comment., so abundant on this forum. I apologise that your insightful talent is not appreciated by some. I think you just proved his point |
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Post by Frustrated on Apr 23, 2017 20:16:15 GMT
The thing is, if Macca's contract had not been extended and it was up at the end of the season - would he get it renewed now? No, but unfortunately it was. Broadly agree with the rest of what you say, but would be reticent to give McCarthy the choice of Assistant after his disastrous choice last time. The sad thing Mark is that Jon has turned the club into a toxic brand, his ridiculous attempt at PR are turning out to be negative, business people will not invest in failure, which unfortunately Jon is tarred with. The naive assertion that he wanted to re sign this years underachieving squad was folly in the extreme, business needs hope, ideas, potential progress, the same attitude should manifest in a football club too, Jon doesn't possess that mantra, hence he has become a liability which will cost the club in the coming months. Tranmere are poised to announce £100k sponsorship in the next few days , Wrexham too will conclude approx £60k of sponsorship, whilst even Macclesfield are working to clinch a deal with potential investors who are aligned to the owners of of Manchester City; the commonality between the aforementioned is is positivity and hope,, not ridiculous and amateur attempts at positivity. If the CFC dream is to progress , it needs to obtain meaningful investment coupled with a united base, unfortunately Jon has , unintentionally probably, split opinion at the club and make the brand toxic which in turn makes it an unattractive proposition to potential meaningful investors; hence the reason he must go, whether via the compromise agreement route or three letters !! |
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Post by Just one point on Apr 23, 2017 21:22:42 GMT
"Underachieving squad"
The squad and the manager achieved specifically what was asked of them.
Yes, given where we were in December we expected more but ultimately you can't say anyone has 'underachieved'
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Post by Duck on Apr 23, 2017 21:51:00 GMT
The magical 50 points could technically still get us relegated...
Even if every fan in the stadium chants for JM's head on Saturday, it will still be dismissed as a vocal minority.
Surely the board must see that we're no where near good enough currently, and Dr the need to do something!
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Post by Lobster on Apr 24, 2017 5:21:46 GMT
This is similar to what I proposed, on another post, only to be shot down by the usual negative, dickhead comment., so abundant on this forum. I apologise that your insightful talent is not appreciated by some. Yeah, but he was told it was a "ridiculous idea" and asked if he was one of McCarthy's mates, by a guest poster called 'wake up'. Nobody's so precious that they can't handle their opinion being challenged, but when the level of comeback is that infantile, it makes people wonder why they bother posting. |
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Post by billyw on Apr 24, 2017 8:45:05 GMT
"Underachieving squad" The squad and the manager achieved specifically what was asked of them. Yes, given where we were in December we expected more but ultimately you can't say anyone has 'underachieved' Jeez how can people say McCarthy has achieved anything - The record doesn't lie, Sharps achieved - McCarthy destroyed his achievement. |
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Post by Derry Blue on Apr 24, 2017 8:56:50 GMT
And he still says its only a minority wanting him out dear god!! more than a minority jon from what i seen at sutton yesterday!! Fair dos to Jon though. If he's reading this site and sees posters like Buckley Blue talk of only 100 discontents, then of course he 'lol believe it's just a small minority. |
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dmp
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Post by dmp on Apr 24, 2017 10:43:24 GMT
Once that 50 point target was achieved jon should of kept the momentum going and aimed higher up the table
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Post by billyw on Apr 24, 2017 11:13:26 GMT
Once that 50 point target was achieved jon should of kept the momentum going and aimed higher up the table He did aim for higher but failed. |
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Post by Krankie's Ghost on Apr 24, 2017 11:53:53 GMT
I genuinely think JM's target was safety and he transferred this to the players. When the play-offs became out of sight there was nothing to play for and he couldn't motivate them. I think he didn't get another striker in January because he believed us to be safe and he kept the money for next season - hence offering the improved terms.
It's all about the budget, some people fail to see that. I would question the lack of a free loanee (if there is such a thing still) but i'm trying to look at this from JM's POV.
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Post by bitbbh on Apr 24, 2017 14:19:22 GMT
I genuinely think JM's target was safety and he transferred this to the players. When the play-offs became out of sight there was nothing to play for and he couldn't motivate them. I think he didn't get another striker in January because he believed us to be safe and he kept the money for next season - hence offering the improved terms. It's all about the budget, some people fail to see that. I would question the lack of a free loanee (if there is such a thing still) but i'm trying to look at this from JM's POV. His target may well have been to keep us in this league this season and no doubt some of what you say about the budget may well be true. But unfortunately this has back fired big time. No win at home since December 2016 has impacted on attendances which will impact on next seasons budget ultimately. So there is every chance the budget may be even lower next season. Sometimes you have to speculate to accumulate especially when you have only two fit strikers and they both go missing to often to lead the line. The tactical in balance and playing different systems with to many square pegs rammed into round holes is suicidal at this level of football. Footballers at this level will want to know their jobs from the off but to many times we have changed system mid game or started with players out of position. It's just been farcical to watch. You play your best players in their best positions. It's not rocket science. The appointment of Iwelumo has been baffling and for the life of me I just don't get what he brings on a adhoc basis, they rarely communicate pitch side during a match when he is there. The post match talk of giving the same players new contracts was ludicrous when many of them are simply not good enough or fit often enough for this level. Big changes are needed and if that means removing the Manager and Assistant then so be it. Football is a result driven entertainment industry and we are not getting either. |
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