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Post by Ian H Block on Oct 7, 2019 13:06:22 GMT
You changed the topic of this thread, which was about football until you piped up. Doesn’t change the fact that if all parties had put up a united front until brexit was sorted we would have got a deal but instead of that they all saw it as a platform for them to make political gains, this comes from someone who voted remain by the way. Don’t see how you can place the blame at other parties. The mess we’re in today is entirely the fault of the Tories, nobody else. Theresa May’s lack of human empathy and total absence of political skill unsurprisingly produced a really bad deal. No good blaming anyone else (something the Conservatives always do) but her unwillingness to engage with anyone else to gain a consensus will be the ruin of this country. |
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Post by Ian H Block on Oct 7, 2019 13:07:18 GMT
Doesn’t change the fact that if all parties had put up a united front until brexit was sorted we would have got a deal but instead of that they all saw it as a platform for them to make political gains, this comes from someone who voted remain by the way. Precisely. Everyone knows the Tories have made a mess of Brexit. The Corbynites however just can't admit that his shamelessly cynical game playing has also contributed to the crisis. A strong and principled leader he is not. They're an odd bunch. If Corbyn told his supporters on here to buy a Wrexham season ticket they'd ask how many. What cynical game playing would that be? |
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Post by Firestick Frank on Oct 7, 2019 13:26:50 GMT
Tories call a referendum to appease a small faction of their party.
Tories fail to plan for one of the outcomes and all jump ship when it happens.
More Tories take over and have three years to strike an exit deal but don’t/can’t, despite having a majority in Parliament.
Corbyn’s fault.
K then...
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Post by Lobster on Oct 7, 2019 17:27:53 GMT
I'll only be happy when Corbyn becomes more enfeebled and put down. That's pretty low mate, whether you like him or not. |
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Post by Hannibal on Oct 7, 2019 19:01:09 GMT
I'll only be happy when Corbyn becomes more enfeebled and put down. That's pretty low mate, whether you like him or not. Sorry but the man is ruining this country. I just want the political situation to return to how it used to be. it wasn't perfect, but it was better than the chaos we have now. Voted Labour since I was old enough to vote, but never again until Corbyn, Momentum et al are history. |
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Post by Firestick Frank on Oct 7, 2019 19:16:28 GMT
How is the Leader of the Opposition ruining the country?
As for your second point, whether or not JC is here to stay, Labour have returned to their socialist roots and that’s here to stay.
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Post by Deva Chanter on Oct 7, 2019 19:42:25 GMT
That's pretty low mate, whether you like him or not. Sorry but the man is ruining this country. I just want the political situation to return to how it used to be. it wasn't perfect, but it was better than the chaos we have now. Voted Labour since I was old enough to vote, but never again until Corbyn, Momentum et al are history. I for one am absolutely delighted that my party no longer counts on the support of a Benjamin Netanyahu fan who wants the Leader of the Opposition 'put down'. Good riddance to bad filth. |
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Post by Firestick Frank on Oct 7, 2019 20:33:23 GMT
Most of the people who hate JC do so because they feel insecure about the kind of politician he is. They are used to polished turds in suits who promise nothing other than a vague sense of security through buzzwords and think tanks. They miss politicians you can ignore.
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Oct 7, 2019 20:40:23 GMT
Most of the people who hate JC do so because they feel insecure about the kind of politician he is. They are used to polished turds in suits who promise nothing other than a vague sense of security through buzzwords and think tanks. They miss politicians you can ignore. We all know exactly what he is, that's why he'll never win a majority. Stop pretending you don't understand that. |
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Post by Firestick Frank on Oct 7, 2019 20:44:21 GMT
Most of the people who hate JC do so because they feel insecure about the kind of politician he is. They are used to polished turds in suits who promise nothing other than a vague sense of security through buzzwords and think tanks. They miss politicians you can ignore. We all know exactly what he is, that's why he'll never win a majority. Stop pretending you don't understand that. Explain. |
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Post by highpeakblue on Oct 7, 2019 21:25:41 GMT
We all know exactly what he is, that's why he'll never win a majority. Stop pretending you don't understand that. Explain. A weak man led by the extreme wing of his party. Read the same for Boris Johnson. Leaving many of us feeling totally disenfranchised. Can't vote for one, won't vote for the other. Could vote for the Lib Dems, but what is the point as it probably lets one or the other in anyway. |
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Post by Lobster on Oct 7, 2019 22:56:44 GMT
That's pretty low mate, whether you like him or not. Sorry but the man is ruining this country. I just want the political situation to return to how it used to be. it wasn't perfect, but it was better than the chaos we have now. Voted Labour since I was old enough to vote, but never again until Corbyn, Momentum et al are history. I'm surprised you haven't retracted your very unpleasant comment. So you stand by wishing death on him? |
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Post by Firestick Frank on Oct 8, 2019 5:24:33 GMT
A weak man led by the extreme wing of his party. Read the same for Boris Johnson. Leaving many of us feeling totally disenfranchised. Can't vote for one, won't vote for the other. Could vote for the Lib Dems, but what is the point as it probably lets one or the other in anyway. Inflicted more government defeats and U-turns than any other LOTO, still standing after four years of a smear campaign from the neoliberal establishment and their pals in the press - weak. Wanting justice for all, everyone to have an equal chance in life and the poor, sick and disabled not to be killed - extreme. |
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Post by Hannibal on Oct 8, 2019 7:34:02 GMT
Sorry but the man is ruining this country. I just want the political situation to return to how it used to be. it wasn't perfect, but it was better than the chaos we have now. Voted Labour since I was old enough to vote, but never again until Corbyn, Momentum et al are history. I for one am absolutely delighted that my party no longer counts on the support of a Benjamin Netanyahu fan who wants the Leader of the Opposition 'put down'. Good riddance to bad filth. I'm not a particular fan of Bibi, but I do support the right of Israel to exist. |
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Post by Hannibal on Oct 8, 2019 7:36:17 GMT
Sorry but the man is ruining this country. I just want the political situation to return to how it used to be. it wasn't perfect, but it was better than the chaos we have now. Voted Labour since I was old enough to vote, but never again until Corbyn, Momentum et al are history. I'm surprised you haven't retracted your very unpleasant comment. So you stand by wishing death on him? Lobster I hope only for his political 'death'. His gentle retirement. He will die one day and many people will say good riddance to bad rubbish. |
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Post by Hannibal on Oct 8, 2019 7:38:18 GMT
A weak man led by the extreme wing of his party. Read the same for Boris Johnson. Leaving many of us feeling totally disenfranchised. Can't vote for one, won't vote for the other. Could vote for the Lib Dems, but what is the point as it probably lets one or the other in anyway. Inflicted more government defeats and U-turns than any other LOTO, still standing after four years of a smear campaign from the neoliberal establishment and their pals in the press - weak. Wanting justice for all, everyone to have an equal chance in life and the poor, sick and disabled not to be killed - extreme. Except Jews. |
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Post by Firestick Frank on Oct 8, 2019 7:50:25 GMT
Inflicted more government defeats and U-turns than any other LOTO, still standing after four years of a smear campaign from the neoliberal establishment and their pals in the press - weak. Wanting justice for all, everyone to have an equal chance in life and the poor, sick and disabled not to be killed - extreme. Except Jews. You're confusing Jeremy Corbyn with Jacob Rees-Mogg. I guess they've got vaguely similar christian names but otherwise I can't understand how you've done that. |
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Post by Lobster on Oct 8, 2019 8:21:44 GMT
I'm surprised you haven't retracted your very unpleasant comment. So you stand by wishing death on him? Lobster I hope only for his political 'death'. His gentle retirement. He will die one day and many people will say good riddance to bad rubbish. Fair enough, but I think maybe you need to be a bit more careful with some of the language you're using.
I get that Corbyn isn't everyone's cup of tea politically, but it surprises me how much some people seem to detest him. He seems to me like a pretty affable and principled bloke who at worst is trying to be too idealistic.
Similarly Greta Thunberg. I find the level of resentment from some people towards a well-intentioned child very strange indeed.
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Post by iandychesterfc on Oct 11, 2019 12:29:38 GMT
I find the vitriol about him pretty pathetic too tbh. I can't be arsed with the 'it's the main-stream-media attacking him because they're scared of him' rubbish either but it seems there is an issue within the party whereby the more moderate are desperate to undermine him, i imagine, because they fear a 1983 manifesto and result.
He has done brilliantly to mobile a cult following, but at the same time has lost Scotland and parts of the North which he needs if he has anything like a realistic chance of a majority.
If, by some miracle Boris does get a deal, the GE may well be devastating for Corbyn.
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Post by Firestick Frank on Oct 11, 2019 13:24:17 GMT
A “cult” of half a million people...
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Post by Lobster on Oct 11, 2019 14:12:20 GMT
I find the vitriol about him pretty pathetic too tbh. I can't be arsed with the 'it's the main-stream-media attacking him because they're scared of him' rubbish either but it seems there is an issue within the party whereby the more moderate are desperate to undermine him, i imagine, because they fear a 1983 manifesto and result. He has done brilliantly to mobile a cult following, but at the same time has lost Scotland and parts of the North which he needs if he has anything like a realistic chance of a majority. If, by some miracle Boris does get a deal, the GE may well be devastating for Corbyn. Agree with most of that, although I'd say the damage was done in Scotland long before Corbyn. Scotland is a pain politically at the moment, because they seemingly don't want independence, but keep voting for a party that does. It's not unlike Brexit really, where you've got a referendum that says one thing, but democratically elected politicians saying another. Just shows that democracy isn't as simple as "the will of the people", whether you type it with caps lock on or not.
Corbyn possibly has lost some of the support in Labour heartlands like Burnley and Blackpool where there's some friction over the issue of immigration, but I'd say the last GE also showed that he'd swung a lot of marginal seats in his party's favour. There was no better example of that than Chester, actually.
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Oct 11, 2019 16:03:30 GMT
I find the vitriol about him pretty pathetic too tbh. I can't be arsed with the 'it's the main-stream-media attacking him because they're scared of him' rubbish either but it seems there is an issue within the party whereby the more moderate are desperate to undermine him, i imagine, because they fear a 1983 manifesto and result. He has done brilliantly to mobile a cult following, but at the same time has lost Scotland and parts of the North which he needs if he has anything like a realistic chance of a majority. If, by some miracle Boris does get a deal, the GE may well be devastating for Corbyn. Agree with most of that, although I'd say the damage was done in Scotland long before Corbyn. Scotland is a pain politically at the moment, because they seemingly don't want independence, but keep voting for a party that does. It's not unlike Brexit really, where you've got a referendum that says one thing, but democratically elected politicians saying another. Just shows that democracy isn't as simple as "the will of the people", whether you type it with caps lock on or not.
Corbyn possibly has lost some of the support in Labour heartlands like Burnley and Blackpool where there's some friction over the issue of immigration, but I'd say the last GE also showed that he'd swung a lot of marginal seats in his party's favour. There was no better example of that than Chester, actually.
He's failed though to take anything like a solid enough stance on Brexit and, rightly or wrongly, it's been damaging for his party. More importantly, he's failed to offer the country a convincing alternative to the mess the Tories have made. It's hard to imagine any other opposition leader being so ineffective. Of course the fanatics will, curiously, defend everything he says and hilariously pretend the main stream media have an 'agenda'. Fact is, Labour won't win a majority at the next election and possibly won't even win the most votes. Corbyn knows this, even if his obsessive supporters don't. |
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Post by Deva Chanter on Oct 11, 2019 17:44:56 GMT
Agree with most of that, although I'd say the damage was done in Scotland long before Corbyn. Scotland is a pain politically at the moment, because they seemingly don't want independence, but keep voting for a party that does. It's not unlike Brexit really, where you've got a referendum that says one thing, but democratically elected politicians saying another. Just shows that democracy isn't as simple as "the will of the people", whether you type it with caps lock on or not.
Corbyn possibly has lost some of the support in Labour heartlands like Burnley and Blackpool where there's some friction over the issue of immigration, but I'd say the last GE also showed that he'd swung a lot of marginal seats in his party's favour. There was no better example of that than Chester, actually.
He's failed though to take anything like a solid enough stance on Brexit and, rightly or wrongly, it's been damaging for his party. More importantly, he's failed to offer the country a convincing alternative to the mess the Tories have made. It's hard to imagine any other opposition leader being so ineffective. Of course the fanatics will, curiously, defend everything he says and hilariously pretend the main stream media have an 'agenda'. Fact is, Labour won't win a majority at the next election and possibly won't even win the most votes. Corbyn knows this, even if his obsessive supporters don't. I would be interested if you could outline what you believe to be "offering the country a convincing alternative to the mess the Tories have made" if Labour's manifesto isn't? |
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Post by Firestick Frank on Oct 11, 2019 20:04:46 GMT
LOL unreal isn’t it? It’s the most radical manifesto I’ve ever known. He has also inflicted a record number of defeats on a serving government - 41 is it? “Ineffective opposition” indeed...
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Post by Lobster on Oct 11, 2019 22:17:03 GMT
I find the vitriol about him pretty pathetic too tbh. I can't be arsed with the 'it's the main-stream-media attacking him because they're scared of him' rubbish either but it seems there is an issue within the party whereby the more moderate are desperate to undermine him, i imagine, because they fear a 1983 manifesto and result. He has done brilliantly to mobile a cult following, but at the same time has lost Scotland and parts of the North which he needs if he has anything like a realistic chance of a majority. If, by some miracle Boris does get a deal, the GE may well be devastating for Corbyn. Agree with most of that, although I'd say the damage was done in Scotland long before Corbyn. Scotland is a pain politically at the moment, because they seemingly don't want independence, but keep voting for a party that does. It's not unlike Brexit really, where you've got a referendum that says one thing, but democratically elected politicians saying another. Just shows that democracy isn't as simple as "the will of the people", whether you type it with caps lock on or not.
Corbyn possibly has lost some of the support in Labour heartlands like Burnley and Blackpool where there's some friction over the issue of immigration, but I'd say the last GE also showed that he'd swung a lot of marginal seats in his party's favour. There was no better example of that than Chester, actually.
By not taken a solid stance, you basically mean he hasn't nailed his colours to the Reamin/People's Vote mast. That might be more of a vote winner, but it's not the right approach in my opinion. I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I actually think Corbyn and Labour's careful, non-reactionary approach is pretty much spot on. Brexit is the worst thing to happen to the country in living memory, and I don't just mean leaving the EU. The whole thing. Both sides. The toxic tone of the debate. The division of families. The rise of the far-right. The fact that no-one's talking about the NHS being on its knees, a generation of people who can't afford a house, a quarter of children living in poverty, a job market where a 21-year-old on £3 an hour can get sent home after 45 minutes because the boss doesn't need them anymore, a planet that's less than a decade away from climate disaster, and all anyone's talking about is blue passports and bendy bananas. I think the future might view Corbyn in a more favourable light than the present does. We need to mature out of all this Brexit shite. |
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Post by iandychesterfc on Oct 14, 2019 14:12:41 GMT
Agree with most of that, although I'd say the damage was done in Scotland long before Corbyn. Scotland is a pain politically at the moment, because they seemingly don't want independence, but keep voting for a party that does. It's not unlike Brexit really, where you've got a referendum that says one thing, but democratically elected politicians saying another. Just shows that democracy isn't as simple as "the will of the people", whether you type it with caps lock on or not.
Corbyn possibly has lost some of the support in Labour heartlands like Burnley and Blackpool where there's some friction over the issue of immigration, but I'd say the last GE also showed that he'd swung a lot of marginal seats in his party's favour. There was no better example of that than Chester, actually.
By not taken a solid stance, you basically mean he hasn't nailed his colours to the Reamin/People's Vote mast. That might be more of a vote winner, but it's not the right approach in my opinion. I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I actually think Corbyn and Labour's careful, non-reactionary approach is pretty much spot on. Brexit is the worst thing to happen to the country in living memory, and I don't just mean leaving the EU. The whole thing. Both sides. The toxic tone of the debate. The division of families. The rise of the far-right. The fact that no-one's talking about the NHS being on its knees, a generation of people who can't afford a house, a quarter of children living in poverty, a job market where a 21-year-old on £3 an hour can get sent home after 45 minutes because the boss doesn't need them anymore, a planet that's less than a decade away from climate disaster, and all anyone's talking about is blue passports and bendy bananas. I think the future might view Corbyn in a more favourable light than the present does. We need to mature out of all this Brexit shite. I mean, come on. I thought you were one of the more sensible ones. |
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Post by eyeswideopen on Oct 14, 2019 14:19:03 GMT
By not taken a solid stance, you basically mean he hasn't nailed his colours to the Reamin/People's Vote mast. That might be more of a vote winner, but it's not the right approach in my opinion. I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I actually think Corbyn and Labour's careful, non-reactionary approach is pretty much spot on. Brexit is the worst thing to happen to the country in living memory, and I don't just mean leaving the EU. The whole thing. Both sides. The toxic tone of the debate. The division of families. The rise of the far-right. The fact that no-one's talking about the NHS being on its knees, a generation of people who can't afford a house, a quarter of children living in poverty, a job market where a 21-year-old on £3 an hour can get sent home after 45 minutes because the boss doesn't need them anymore, a planet that's less than a decade away from climate disaster, and all anyone's talking about is blue passports and bendy bananas. I think the future might view Corbyn in a more favourable light than the present does. We need to mature out of all this Brexit shite. I mean, come on. I thought you were one of the more sensible ones. He is almost correct though, a 21 year old apprentice can be paid the minimum wage of £3-90 an hour, unlikely to be on a zero hours contract though, but i get his drift. |
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Post by Lobster on Oct 14, 2019 14:52:38 GMT
I went off on one and exaggerated a bit, but the apprentice wage is misused by plenty of employers.
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Oct 14, 2019 15:33:53 GMT
LOL unreal isn’t it? It’s the most radical manifesto I’ve ever known. He has also inflicted a record number of defeats on a serving government - 41 is it? “Ineffective opposition” indeed... I know left wing propaganda is as notorious as anyone's but that's ridiculous. The government defeats have had little to do with the Labour leadership in reality. The fact Corbyn was too scared to fight a GE against one of the most unpopular Tory governments ever tells you much 'lol'. |
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Oct 14, 2019 15:43:06 GMT
He's failed though to take anything like a solid enough stance on Brexit and, rightly or wrongly, it's been damaging for his party. More importantly, he's failed to offer the country a convincing alternative to the mess the Tories have made. It's hard to imagine any other opposition leader being so ineffective. Of course the fanatics will, curiously, defend everything he says and hilariously pretend the main stream media have an 'agenda'. Fact is, Labour won't win a majority at the next election and possibly won't even win the most votes. Corbyn knows this, even if his obsessive supporters don't. I would be interested if you could outline what you believe to be "offering the country a convincing alternative to the mess the Tories have made" if Labour's manifesto isn't? We've had this debate countless times. Everyone agrees about the Tories on Brexit. The Corbyn circus think he's been spot on whereas the rest of the country have found him confused and deliberately unclear. As said previously, the Tories were in such a mess in the 90s it was inevitible they weren't forming the next goverment in 1997. Today however it's a massive failure of Labour that, in the backdrop of May & Johnson leadership, they'll get nowhere near even a small majority when the next GE takes place. All that said I'm appreciating your new approach to adult debating. |
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