|
|
BREXIT
Dec 24, 2020 19:12:36 GMT
Post by superman on Dec 24, 2020 19:12:36 GMT
Only in time, and it will need plenty of that, will it be possible to form some sort of judgements about whether it was better to leave or remain, whether the deal is good or bad. The arguments will unfortunately continue for as long. There is no absolute right or wrong. I wanted to remain and for the UK to be more proactive in EU. There was never a realistic chance of that. It goes against our national psyche. Time to move on and focus on other currently more important issues. The closing out of Brexit had become an unwelcome if important distraction.
|
|
|
|
BREXIT
Dec 24, 2020 19:13:55 GMT
via mobile
Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 24, 2020 19:13:55 GMT
If Labour had got in Corbyn would still be grandly sat on the fence deciding on a policy and positioning himself as some great father of the nation overseeing the debate. I voted remain and eventhough I'm on the losing side of this argument, I still want the best for the UK and hope it, somehow, works out. I certainly won't be hoping it breaks up the country or tragically threatening to apply for a different passport any time soon. Given all that has happened, particularly in the last week, you begin to wonder if we are better off out of it after all. This is what worries me most of all. You're a pretty moderate and sensible guy and he's managed to get you to believe that this is a normal, progressive and even a positive thing. I think you've fallen for the whole thing hook, line and sinker sadly. He supports the murderous war-crime government of Tony Blair. |
|
Bob
Full Member
Posts: 106
|
BREXIT
Dec 24, 2020 19:32:05 GMT
via mobile
Post by Bob on Dec 24, 2020 19:32:05 GMT
I’m all for different opinions, that’s debate. But this guy has only posted 20 times and at least ten are aimed at me. Weird. Trouble is, you don't know how to debate with people who have a different view... Every single time you get questioned on something you've clearly pasted off twitter, you disappear... gone without a trace, and then luckily one of your bodyguards (mods) comes along and rescues you by censoring and deleting. Then you come out from the shadows to paste someone else's tweets to make a different point. Its truly bizarre behaviour, it really is! It is bizarre, a whole page was zapped because people were fed up of the plagiarism being pasted on here. But why? There were no personal attacks. All I suggested was that citation would be better off in the future if you were to copy other views. That isn't worthy of being deleted in my opinion. |
|
|
|
BREXIT
Dec 24, 2020 19:35:23 GMT
via mobile
Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 24, 2020 19:35:23 GMT
To be fair, the post of mine you’re referring to was not an opinion I was trying to pass off as my own, it was actual facts.
|
|
Bob
Full Member
Posts: 106
|
BREXIT
Dec 24, 2020 19:41:06 GMT
via mobile
Post by Bob on Dec 24, 2020 19:41:06 GMT
An opinion from Howard Goodall is not 'fact'.
|
|
|
|
BREXIT
Dec 24, 2020 19:49:35 GMT
via mobile
Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 24, 2020 19:49:35 GMT
An opinion from Howard Goodall is not 'fact'. Five years of an internal war? Fact Devaluing the pound? Fact Quitting the largest free trade zone in the world? Fact Creating a mountain of beurocratic red tape? Fact Spent £200bn? Fact Six other countries closed their borders in 24 hours? Fact |
|
Bob
Full Member
Posts: 106
|
BREXIT
Dec 24, 2020 19:52:12 GMT
via mobile
Post by Bob on Dec 24, 2020 19:52:12 GMT
An opinion from Howard Goodall is not 'fact'. Five years of an internal war? Fact Devaluing the pound? Fact Quitting the largest free trade zone in the world? Fact Creating a mountain of beurocratic red tape? Fact Spent £200bn? Fact Six other countries closed their borders in 24 hours? Fact We will have to go to the independent fact checkers to confirm this. But in future, use a citation. |
|
|
|
BREXIT
Dec 24, 2020 22:46:04 GMT
via mobile
Post by midfieldgeneral on Dec 24, 2020 22:46:04 GMT
Democracy voted to leave the EU which we have done and it looks like we have a deal all the crying about losing will not change the decision democracy made its time to get behind the UK and make it work. Frankly, I will be actively working to make sure the deal doesnt work and for the breakup of the UK.You can have English Nationalism or have the UK. Unfortunately, you cant have both. |
|
|
|
BREXIT
Dec 24, 2020 23:07:57 GMT
via mobile
Post by Oaks Blue on Dec 24, 2020 23:07:57 GMT
Democracy voted to leave the EU which we have done and it looks like we have a deal all the crying about losing will not change the decision democracy made its time to get behind the UK and make it work. Frankly, I will be actively working to make sure the deal doesnt work and for the breakup of the UK. Did you get your Irish passport yet? And will you be handing your UK one back? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
BREXIT
Dec 24, 2020 23:09:37 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2020 23:09:37 GMT
Frankly, I will be actively working to make sure the deal doesnt work and for the breakup of the UK.You can have English Nationalism or have the UK. Unfortunately, you cant have both. salty tears |
|
|
|
Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 24, 2020 23:12:58 GMT
Really do think the breakup of the Union is inevitable now - Scotland obviously but the Occupied Territories in the north of Ireland are also being dragged out against their will and they share a border with the EU! Although Wales essentially voted to Leave the EU the support for independence has sky-rocketed since March as the people of Wales cotton on to what a raw deal they get from Westminster, with the pandemic having demonstrated the powers that the Senedd actually have, and the First Minister’s approval rating remaining way above that of the clown in Number 10. This is something that was previously not really in the Welsh public’s consciousness but now that it is, it seems they want more of it. I, for one, will be championing Annibyniaeth and I really think it’ll happen in our lifetime. New Labour II’s only anti-independence argument to Wales is “it’ll be better when we get into power” - absolutely no guarantee that that will happen any time soon and Wales could be lumbered with yet another Tory government they never voted for. In fact, the people of Wales have never, ever elected a Tory government (always a Labour one) but have been lumbered with one for the majority of the last 60 years. And some of you have the brass neck to talk about democracy!
The U.K. is on its deathbed, time to put it down.
|
|
|
|
Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 24, 2020 23:21:36 GMT
Interesting to see the same old posters, Upsanddowns and Oaks Blue, deliberately avoiding a grown-up debate and instead resorting to childish one-line put downs and insults to other contributors who happen to have a different opinion.
It’s sullying the forum, bringing the level right down.
You won, get over it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
BREXIT
Dec 24, 2020 23:23:30 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2020 23:23:30 GMT
Really do think the breakup of the Union is inevitable now - Scotland obviously but the Occupied Territories in the north of Ireland are also being dragged out against their will and they share a border with the EU! Although Wales essentially voted to Leave the EU the support for independence has sky-rocketed since March as the people of Wales cotton on to what a raw deal they get from Westminster, with the pandemic having demonstrated the powers that the Senedd actually have, and the First Minister’s approval rating remaining way above that of the clown in Number 10. This is something that was previously not really in the Welsh public’s consciousness but now that it is, it seems they want more of it. I, for one, will be championing Annibyniaeth and I really think it’ll happen in our lifetime. New Labour II’s only anti-independence argument to Wales is “it’ll be better when we get into power” - absolutely no guarantee that that will happen any time soon and Wales could be lumbered with yet another Tory government they never voted for. In fact, the people of Wales have never, ever elected a Tory government (always a Labour one) but have been lumbered with one for the majority of the last 60 years. And some of you have the brass neck to talk about democracy! The U.K. is on its deathbed, time to put it down. if drakeford reads this he wont be very happy with your record on forcasting election results |
|
|
|
Post by Si on Dec 24, 2020 23:24:00 GMT
Its nearly Xmas day lads....even the germans put down their weapons and had a kick about so how about a 24 hour truce?
|
|
|
|
BREXIT
Dec 24, 2020 23:25:07 GMT
via mobile
Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 24, 2020 23:25:07 GMT
Really do think the breakup of the Union is inevitable now - Scotland obviously but the Occupied Territories in the north of Ireland are also being dragged out against their will and they share a border with the EU! Although Wales essentially voted to Leave the EU the support for independence has sky-rocketed since March as the people of Wales cotton on to what a raw deal they get from Westminster, with the pandemic having demonstrated the powers that the Senedd actually have, and the First Minister’s approval rating remaining way above that of the clown in Number 10. This is something that was previously not really in the Welsh public’s consciousness but now that it is, it seems they want more of it. I, for one, will be championing Annibyniaeth and I really think it’ll happen in our lifetime. New Labour II’s only anti-independence argument to Wales is “it’ll be better when we get into power” - absolutely no guarantee that that will happen any time soon and Wales could be lumbered with yet another Tory government they never voted for. In fact, the people of Wales have never, ever elected a Tory government (always a Labour one) but have been lumbered with one for the majority of the last 60 years. And some of you have the brass neck to talk about democracy! The U.K. is on its deathbed, time to put it down. if drakeford reads this he wont be very happy with your record on forcasting election results The First Minister of the Senedd is irrelevant really when it comes to U.K. general elections as the public vote for a Westminster MP. I don’t get your point. |
|
|
|
BREXIT
Dec 24, 2020 23:28:26 GMT
via mobile
Post by Oaks Blue on Dec 24, 2020 23:28:26 GMT
Interesting to see the same old posters, Upsanddowns and Oaks Blue, deliberately avoiding a grown-up debate and instead resorting to childish one-line put downs and insults to other contributors who happen to have a different opinion. It’s sullying the forum, bringing the level right down. You won, get over it. 🤣🤣🤣 sullying the forum!! Go for independence Mancot, good luck with it. The reality is Wales is not an economy without the rest of the UK, part of the EU or not you are too reliant on everyone else 👍 |
|
|
|
BREXIT
Dec 24, 2020 23:47:48 GMT
via mobile
Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 24, 2020 23:47:48 GMT
Interesting to see the same old posters, Upsanddowns and Oaks Blue, deliberately avoiding a grown-up debate and instead resorting to childish one-line put downs and insults to other contributors who happen to have a different opinion. It’s sullying the forum, bringing the level right down. You won, get over it. 🤣🤣🤣 sullying the forum!! Go for independence Mancot, good luck with it. The reality is Wales is not an economy without the rest of the UK, part of the EU or not you are too reliant on everyone else 👍 Ah that old argument - “too small, economy too reliant on others”. There are tons of smaller nations than Wales with self-autonomy. The same “you’ll never make it without us” argument was used by the British against Ireland in the 30s, sounding like a jealous jilted lover. Speaking of Ireland, Wales had a GDP twice the size of Ireland’s in the 1960s, now Ireland - released from the shackles of British rule, have an economy four-times the size of Wales. In terms of the economy, Wales has 3.1million people and a £75billion economy, Wales already is a major net exporter of food and energy to England, Wales exports twice as much electricity as they use but the profits don’t go back to Wales, Wales has 15% of Europe’s tidal power but Westminster won’t allow them to use it, Wales can’t sell its water at a profit because of Westminster rules, Wales’ tax-payers have contributed to various England-only projects (most recently HS2 - Wales won’t get any benefit from that whatsoever), of the 186 countries the IMF ranks for GDP per capita Wales would currently be 40th (top 20%). I could go on but I sense I’ve answered your point. |
|
|
|
BREXIT
Dec 24, 2020 23:53:54 GMT
via mobile
Post by Oaks Blue on Dec 24, 2020 23:53:54 GMT
🤣🤣🤣 sullying the forum!! Go for independence Mancot, good luck with it. The reality is Wales is not an economy without the rest of the UK, part of the EU or not you are too reliant on everyone else 👍 Ah that old argument - “too small, economy too reliant on others”. There are tons of smaller nations than Wales with self-autonomy. The same “you’ll never make it without us” argument was used by the British against Ireland in the 30s, sounding like a jealous jilted lover. Speaking of Ireland, Wales had a GDP twice the size of Ireland’s in the 1960s, now Ireland - released from the shackles of British rule, have an economy four-times the size of Wales. In terms of the economy, Wales has 3.1million people and a £75billion economy, Wales already is a major net exporter of food and energy to England, Wales exports twice as much electricity as they use but the profits don’t go back to Wales, Wales has 15% of Europe’s tidal power but Westminster won’t allow them to use it, Wales can’t sell its water at a profit because of Westminster rules, Wales’ tax-payers have contributed to various England-only projects (most recently HS2 - Wales won’t get any benefit from that whatsoever), of the 186 countries the IMF ranks for GDP per capita Wales would currently be 40th (top 20%). I could go on but I sense I’ve answered your point. Keep going because you haven't made any worthwhile points yet, all you've done is guessed how prosperous Wales might be if they achieve independence. Tell me something meaningful, I won't hold my breath |
|
|
|
BREXIT
Dec 25, 2020 0:10:12 GMT
via mobile
Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 25, 2020 0:10:12 GMT
How about you counter my points by telling me how Wales CAN’T prosper by going it alone? All you’ve said is “too small, not a big economy” and I’ve answered those points in detail - not by guesswork, but by telling you what actually happens now.
|
|
|
|
BREXIT
Dec 25, 2020 7:24:00 GMT
via mobile
Post by midfieldgeneral on Dec 25, 2020 7:24:00 GMT
Frankly, I will be actively working to make sure the deal doesnt work and for the breakup of the UK. Did you get your Irish passport yet? And will you be handing your UK one back? I would happily give back my UK passport, because its not the tolerant inclusive place, it once was. Nationalism and Racism writ large Farage wetting himself over gunboats, in the Channel, a recent example. i will be campaigning for a United Ireland and an Independent Scotland |
|
|
|
BREXIT
Dec 25, 2020 7:26:27 GMT
via mobile
Post by midfieldgeneral on Dec 25, 2020 7:26:27 GMT
Not like Farage and the ERG , they cried about Europe for about 40 years. |
|
|
|
Post by midfieldgeneral on Dec 25, 2020 7:31:32 GMT
Really do think the breakup of the Union is inevitable now - Scotland obviously but the Occupied Territories in the north of Ireland are also being dragged out against their will and they share a border with the EU! Although Wales essentially voted to Leave the EU the support for independence has sky-rocketed since March as the people of Wales cotton on to what a raw deal they get from Westminster, with the pandemic having demonstrated the powers that the Senedd actually have, and the First Minister’s approval rating remaining way above that of the clown in Number 10. This is something that was previously not really in the Welsh public’s consciousness but now that it is, it seems they want more of it. I, for one, will be championing Annibyniaeth and I really think it’ll happen in our lifetime. New Labour II’s only anti-independence argument to Wales is “it’ll be better when we get into power” - absolutely no guarantee that that will happen any time soon and Wales could be lumbered with yet another Tory government they never voted for. In fact, the people of Wales have never, ever elected a Tory government (always a Labour one) but have been lumbered with one for the majority of the last 60 years. And some of you have the brass neck to talk about democracy! The U.K. is on its deathbed, time to put it down. up the Celts. |
|
|
|
Post by midfieldgeneral on Dec 25, 2020 8:47:45 GMT
Ah that old argument - “too small, economy too reliant on others”. There are tons of smaller nations than Wales with self-autonomy. The same “you’ll never make it without us” argument was used by the British against Ireland in the 30s, sounding like a jealous jilted lover. Speaking of Ireland, Wales had a GDP twice the size of Ireland’s in the 1960s, now Ireland - released from the shackles of British rule, have an economy four-times the size of Wales. In terms of the economy, Wales has 3.1million people and a £75billion economy, Wales already is a major net exporter of food and energy to England, Wales exports twice as much electricity as they use but the profits don’t go back to Wales, Wales has 15% of Europe’s tidal power but Westminster won’t allow them to use it, Wales can’t sell its water at a profit because of Westminster rules, Wales’ tax-payers have contributed to various England-only projects (most recently HS2 - Wales won’t get any benefit from that whatsoever), of the 186 countries the IMF ranks for GDP per capita Wales would currently be 40th (top 20%). I could go on but I sense I’ve answered your point. Keep going because you haven't made any worthwhile points yet, all you've done is guessed how prosperous Wales might be if they achieve independence. Tell me something meaningful, I won't hold my breath They probably said the same about the Republic of Ireland, in 1922. However, Ireland has ' prospered mightily', since independence, with no small thanks to the EU During Brexit, Johnson and the English Nationalists found that Ireland could not be pushed around, as it once could, because it had 27 other EU states and 148 million US/Irish votes and Biden behind it. |
|
|
|
BREXIT
Dec 26, 2020 10:44:43 GMT
Si likes this
Post by everhopeful on Dec 26, 2020 10:44:43 GMT
Its nearly Xmas day lads....even the germans put down their weapons and had a kick about so how about a 24 hour truce? Or even one till after New Year?? |
|
|
|
BREXIT
Dec 28, 2020 12:21:21 GMT
via mobile
Post by Lobster on Dec 28, 2020 12:21:21 GMT
|
|
|
|
BREXIT
Dec 28, 2020 12:35:35 GMT
via mobile
Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 28, 2020 12:35:35 GMT
It’s stuff like this that people didn’t think of isn’t it? They just wanted less Pakistanis and Iraqis here so voted to leave the EU for some reason. |
|
|
|
BREXIT
Dec 28, 2020 12:51:02 GMT
via mobile
Post by lincolnexile on Dec 28, 2020 12:51:02 GMT
It’s stuff like this that people didn’t think of isn’t it? They just wanted less Pakistanis and Iraqis here so voted to leave the EU for some reason. Didn’t realize Pakistan and Iraq were in Europe. |
|
|
|
BREXIT
Dec 28, 2020 13:00:28 GMT
via mobile
Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 28, 2020 13:00:28 GMT
It’s stuff like this that people didn’t think of isn’t it? They just wanted less Pakistanis and Iraqis here so voted to leave the EU for some reason. Didn’t realize Pakistan and Iraq were in Europe. Exactly the point I was making. |
|
|
|
BREXIT
Dec 28, 2020 13:06:07 GMT
Post by Wortleyblue on Dec 28, 2020 13:06:07 GMT
How about you counter my points by telling me how Wales CAN’T prosper by going it alone? All you’ve said is “too small, not a big economy” and I’ve answered those points in detail - not by guesswork, but by telling you what actually happens now. Why do you work in England then |
|
|
|
BREXIT
Dec 28, 2020 13:06:42 GMT
via mobile
Post by lincolnexile on Dec 28, 2020 13:06:42 GMT
Didn’t realize Pakistan and Iraq were in Europe. Exactly the point I was making. Personally I don’t know anyone who thought that leaving the EU would result in less Pakistanis or Iraquis arriving in the UK. I’m guessing that you’re implying that everyone who voted leave was either stupid, racist or both. You are the master of generalization. |
|
