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BREXIT
Mar 21, 2019 14:24:08 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Mar 21, 2019 14:24:08 GMT
Been a Labour supporter all my life and had genuine optimism that JC would make a difference. By refusing to be in the same room as someone whose opinion differs from your own is childish if it was you an i, as leader of the opposition, its downright unprofessional. How on earth would he deal with the rest of the EU, Trump and co if he was ever elected. Quote from Vince Cable: “Jeremy Corbyn’s kinder, gentler politics found wanting as he stomped out of the meeting.” Yet he also agreed how pointless the meeting was. May has shown absolutely no gumption to discuss anything other than to repeat the tripe she’s been spewing for the past god knows how long. |
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Post by Al on Mar 21, 2019 14:26:09 GMT
It is a complete waste of time talking to her about Brexit when she has absolutely no desire to compromise on any of her red lines.
I'd rather leave with no deal than her deal.
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Post by Ian H Block on Mar 21, 2019 20:15:25 GMT
I see Labour MP Lloyd Russell-Moyle was attacked in Brighton by an angry Leave voter today. A politician really is going to get killed by one of these right-wing crazies unless Theresa May and the Tory Brexshitters calm the rhetoric.
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BREXIT
Mar 21, 2019 20:36:28 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Mar 21, 2019 20:36:28 GMT
I see Labour MP Lloyd Russell-Moyle was attacked in Brighton by an angry Leave voter today. A politician really is going to get killed by one of these right-wing crazies unless Theresa May and the Tory Brexshitters calm the rhetoric. Another politician* (remember it’s happened once before). |
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Post by everhopeful on Mar 22, 2019 4:36:54 GMT
No more personal attacks please. Let's keep on topic and if you disagree with someone, put forward your counter argument in a civil way. If you feel that you cannot respond in a decent, polite way, then perhaps it would pay to go to a different thread. Let's be reasonable to each other, debate properly and avoid any more nasty, personal remarks. We are all Blues fans and as such we should be better than this!
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BREXIT
Mar 22, 2019 7:09:40 GMT
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Mar 22, 2019 7:09:40 GMT
Well I hate what May has negotiated. I'd have liked to see Labour take a more pro-EU stance from the outset. It hasn't helped that JC has been by some as a Brexiteer himself! I think Corbyn should have campaigned harder for remain in the first place. And alienate large swathes of their traditional support? Corbyn and Labour have had the most difficult task of trying to represent the 100% - the only party to do so. So, it's right for one side to play party politics but not another? Mental! Anyway all options seem to remain on the table after last night's negotiations, the only change is that we won't be leaving on March 29th. Sadly this means her deal is still on the table and we can all look forward to MV3. Still as difficult to call how this will all end as ever. |
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BREXIT
Mar 22, 2019 7:41:48 GMT
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Post by midfieldgeneral on Mar 22, 2019 7:41:48 GMT
May was asked 3 tines, what she would do if her deal was voted down and went into Maybot mode. So the grown ups have made the decision for her. The EU has taken over the process and the comnons needs to do the same. If her deal is even allowed to be put and voted down, which seems highly likely. The UK nust decide by 12th April what it wants to do next ,a softer Brexit ; a no deal, a long extension, a second referendum or revoke A50 ? Basically, the commons needs to grow a pair, sideline the hapless May and take control of the process. Hearing a EU spokesperson say ' that the UK is like a sick patient needed care', is to acknowledge how far down the Brexiteers and this incompetent Government have dragged us.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2019 9:17:58 GMT
Incompetent maybe but I still await corbyn alternative. He has never once explained this marvelous deal we can get if only we listen to him. What part of no alternative does he not understand
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Post by Al on Mar 22, 2019 9:45:30 GMT
Incompetent maybe but I still await corbyn alternative. He has never once explained this marvelous deal we can get if only we listen to him. What part of no alternative does he not understand Sorry but it's been explained numerous times what their preference would be. Which sounds (to me anyway) like a Norway style member of the EEC. Which is my preferred choice if we are to leave with a deal. Indeed, the comments I have seen from the EU is that they are receptive to the ideas put forward by the LotO. HOWEVER, this will fail in the HoC whilst Labour and indeed Corbyn pushes for it as in my opinion the Tories would rather drop out with no deal than lose face and give what would be a significant political win to the opposition. It will get to the point where something has to change. Be it a public vote, a general election, no deal or revokation (last two being the nuclear options). If this Government and this PM were truly on the side of the electorate she would concede defeat on her Withdrawl Agreement, rip up her red lines and find concensus in the house. We all know she won't do that though |
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BREXIT
Mar 22, 2019 9:48:34 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Mar 22, 2019 9:48:34 GMT
Incompetent maybe but I still await corbyn alternative. He has never once explained this marvelous deal we can get if only we listen to him. What part of no alternative does he not understand Norway-style agreement mate. |
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Post by Lobster on Mar 22, 2019 9:48:37 GMT
I see Labour MP Lloyd Russell-Moyle was attacked in Brighton by an angry Leave voter today. A politician really is going to get killed by one of these right-wing crazies unless Theresa May and the Tory Brexshitters calm the rhetoric. We could learn a lot about rhetoric and responsible media handling from New Zealand I think. This is a country that’s never really had to deal with anything like that attack and I think their PM has been superb - strong and decisive, yet caring and cautious. Their media as well are just not giving the attacker the attention he craves, meanwhile the Mail and the Mirror allowed readers to download his manifesto from their websites! |
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BREXIT
Mar 22, 2019 9:52:06 GMT
Post by Derry Blue on Mar 22, 2019 9:52:06 GMT
May was asked 3 tines, what she would do if her deal was voted down and went into Maybot mode. So the grown ups have made the decision for her. The EU has taken over the process and the comnons needs to do the same. If her deal is even allowed to be put and voted down, which seems highly likely. The UK nust decide by 12th April what it wants to do next ,a softer Brexit ; a no deal, a long extension, a second referendum or revoke A50 ? Basically, the commons needs to grow a pair, sideline the hapless May and take control of the process. Hearing a EU spokesperson say ' that the UK is like a sick patient needed care', is to acknowledge how far down the Brexiteers and this incompetent Government have dragged us. “The Brexiteers have dragged us” I disagree with your comment. The 17 million plus haven’t dragged us anywhere. Leave vote won a democratic referendum, now all they want what what was promised - that we leave the EU. The mess is down to a largely Remain parliament who won’t accept that they lost, a biaised Speaker, possibly the most inept PM in living memory, a Tory party full of smug buggers like Ken Clarke and Dominic Grieve, an official opposition who are using Brexit to get into power despite the millions of their supporters who want out, a Civil Service who seem determined to thwart the process. Parliament needs to honour the result of the vote. Yes, the negotiations are difficult but too many are using those difficulties to stop us leaving. |
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BREXIT
Mar 22, 2019 9:54:22 GMT
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Post by Lobster on Mar 22, 2019 9:54:22 GMT
Incompetent maybe but I still await corbyn alternative. He has never once explained this marvelous deal we can get if only we listen to him. What part of no alternative does he not understand Norway-style agreement mate. Would have to agree that the ‘Norway-style’ agreement sounds better than May’s deal or no deal, but what worries me is this: “The oil and gas sector constitutes around 22% of Norwegian GDP and 67% of Norwegian exports.” Do we really have anything like that to fall back on? Plus Norway is very sparsely populated. |
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BREXIT
Mar 22, 2019 10:41:45 GMT
Post by Al on Mar 22, 2019 10:41:45 GMT
May was asked 3 tines, what she would do if her deal was voted down and went into Maybot mode. So the grown ups have made the decision for her. The EU has taken over the process and the comnons needs to do the same. If her deal is even allowed to be put and voted down, which seems highly likely. The UK nust decide by 12th April what it wants to do next ,a softer Brexit ; a no deal, a long extension, a second referendum or revoke A50 ? Basically, the commons needs to grow a pair, sideline the hapless May and take control of the process. Hearing a EU spokesperson say ' that the UK is like a sick patient needed care', is to acknowledge how far down the Brexiteers and this incompetent Government have dragged us. . The 17 million plus haven’t dragged us anywhere. Leave vote won a democratic referendum, now all they want what what was promised - that we leave the EU. The mess is down to a largely Remain parliament who won’t accept that they lost, a biaised Speaker, possibly the most inept PM in living memory, a Tory party full of smug buggers like Ken Clarke and Dominic Grieve, an official opposition who are using Brexit to get into power despite the millions of their supporters who want out, a Civil Service who seem determined to thwart the process. Parliament needs to honour the result of the vote. Yes, the negotiations are difficult but too many are using those difficulties to stop us leaving. Agreed with the point highlighted. It's May and this Government that have dragged us into the position we are now in.
Don't agree with the rest mind.
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BREXIT
Mar 22, 2019 10:44:34 GMT
Post by Derry Blue on Mar 22, 2019 10:44:34 GMT
“The Brexiteers have dragged us” I disagree with your comment. The 17 million plus haven’t dragged us anywhere. Leave vote won a democratic referendum, now all they want what what was promised - that we leave the EU. The mess is down to a largely Remain parliament who won’t accept that they lost, a biaised Speaker, possibly the most inept PM in living memory, a Tory party full of smug buggers like Ken Clarke and Dominic Grieve, an official opposition who are using Brexit to get into power despite the millions of their supporters who want out, a Civil Service who seem determined to thwart the process. Parliament needs to honour the result of the vote. Yes, the negotiations are difficult but too many are using those difficulties to stop us leaving. Agreed with the point highlighted. It's May and this Government that have dragged us into the position we are now in.
Don't agree with the rest mind.
I’m surprised that you don’t agree that Ken Clarke is a smug bugger who from the day of the referendum result has made it perfectly clear that his target is to stop Brexit. |
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BREXIT
Mar 22, 2019 10:47:25 GMT
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Post by Al on Mar 22, 2019 10:47:25 GMT
Agreed with the point highlighted. It's May and this Government that have dragged us into the position we are now in.
Don't agree with the rest mind.
I’m surprised that you don’t agree that Ken Clarke is a smug bugger who from the day of the referendum result has made it perfectly clear that his target is to stop Brexit. Each to their own isn't it |
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BREXIT
Mar 22, 2019 10:47:59 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Mar 22, 2019 10:47:59 GMT
May was asked 3 tines, what she would do if her deal was voted down and went into Maybot mode. So the grown ups have made the decision for her. The EU has taken over the process and the comnons needs to do the same. If her deal is even allowed to be put and voted down, which seems highly likely. The UK nust decide by 12th April what it wants to do next ,a softer Brexit ; a no deal, a long extension, a second referendum or revoke A50 ? Basically, the commons needs to grow a pair, sideline the hapless May and take control of the process. Hearing a EU spokesperson say ' that the UK is like a sick patient needed care', is to acknowledge how far down the Brexiteers and this incompetent Government have dragged us. “The Brexiteers have dragged us” I disagree with your comment. The 17 million plus haven’t dragged us anywhere. Leave vote won a democratic referendum, now all they want what what was promised - that we leave the EU. The mess is down to a largely Remain parliament who won’t accept that they lost, a biaised Speaker, possibly the most inept PM in living memory, a Tory party full of smug buggers like Ken Clarke and Dominic Grieve, an official opposition who are using Brexit to get into power despite the millions of their supporters who want out, a Civil Service who seem determined to thwart the process. Parliament needs to honour the result of the vote. Yes, the negotiations are difficult but too many are using those difficulties to stop us leaving. This is the first post of yours on this 32-page thread that I actually respect. I disagree entirely of course, but I respect it because you’ve finally offered an opinion. |
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BREXIT
Mar 22, 2019 11:17:26 GMT
Post by midfieldgeneral on Mar 22, 2019 11:17:26 GMT
May was asked 3 tines, what she would do if her deal was voted down and went into Maybot mode. So the grown ups have made the decision for her. The EU has taken over the process and the comnons needs to do the same. If her deal is even allowed to be put and voted down, which seems highly likely. The UK nust decide by 12th April what it wants to do next ,a softer Brexit ; a no deal, a long extension, a second referendum or revoke A50 ? Basically, the commons needs to grow a pair, sideline the hapless May and take control of the process. Hearing a EU spokesperson say ' that the UK is like a sick patient needed care', is to acknowledge how far down the Brexiteers and this incompetent Government have dragged us. “The Brexiteers have dragged us” I disagree with your comment. The 17 million plus haven’t dragged us anywhere. Leave vote won a democratic referendum, now all they want what what was promised - that we leave the EU. The mess is down to a largely Remain parliament who won’t accept that they lost, a biaised Speaker, possibly the most inept PM in living memory, a Tory party full of smug buggers like Ken Clarke and Dominic Grieve, an official opposition who are using Brexit to get into power despite the millions of their supporters who want out, a Civil Service who seem determined to thwart the process. Parliament needs to honour the result of the vote. Yes, the negotiations are difficult but too many are using those difficulties to stop us leaving. The referendum was over 3 yeras ago. Lets see if the result still stands or as I suspect, there is now a leave minority dragging a remain majority out of the EU? What percentage of that leave vote was an anti-establishment , kick in the balls for austerity? Because if it wasnt May would have gained a massive majority, at the 2017 GE, which she didn't. |
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BREXIT
Mar 22, 2019 11:45:36 GMT
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Post by Lobster on Mar 22, 2019 11:45:36 GMT
“The Brexiteers have dragged us” I disagree with your comment. The 17 million plus haven’t dragged us anywhere. Leave vote won a democratic referendum, now all they want what what was promised - that we leave the EU. The mess is down to a largely Remain parliament who won’t accept that they lost, a biaised Speaker, possibly the most inept PM in living memory, a Tory party full of smug buggers like Ken Clarke and Dominic Grieve, an official opposition who are using Brexit to get into power despite the millions of their supporters who want out, a Civil Service who seem determined to thwart the process. Parliament needs to honour the result of the vote. Yes, the negotiations are difficult but too many are using those difficulties to stop us leaving. Agreed with the point highlighted. It's May and this Government that have dragged us into the position we are now in.
Don't agree with the rest mind.
I still blame Cameron first and foremost. Attempted to solve an issue the Tories have squabbled over for decades by fobbing it off on the public, put all his chips on Remain and put nothing at all in place for the outcome of Leave, then buggered off when it didn’t go the way he wanted. Completely irresponsible behaviour. He cannot say hand on heart that he acted in the country’s best interests. |
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BREXIT
Mar 22, 2019 11:53:48 GMT
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Post by Lobster on Mar 22, 2019 11:53:48 GMT
Been a Labour supporter all my life and had genuine optimism that JC would make a difference. By refusing to be in the same room as someone whose opinion differs from your own is childish if it was you an i, as leader of the opposition, its downright unprofessional. How on earth would he deal with the rest of the EU, Trump and co if he was ever elected. “What’s apparent from tonight’s meeting is that, despite his claims, Jeremy Corbyn only ever speaks with people he agrees with.” Euan Philips, spokesman for the group Labour Against Anti-Semitism. Is that the same Jeremy Corbyn who spoke regularly to Iain Paisley, and even argued against his suspension from the House of Commons? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2019 12:06:33 GMT
.....or we could just revoke Article 50 and remain as we are. Sorted. We will never have as good a deal as we have now. It's in our remit to control our own borders if we choose to and we have a right of veto over any new laws the EU choose to bring in, even if all other 27 EU countries agree to it. A sign of a true democracy is that people can change their minds and opinions over time. Leaver/Brexiteer MP's have changed their rhetoric since 2016 and Theresa May as had two ballots (possibly a third next week) over an inferior deal that still leaves us tied to the EU. But apparently the people aren't allowed another vote. And this before even mentioning the legality of the referendum that destroys the Good Friday Agreement, democratically agreed to by 71% of people in Northern Ireland. Even if we did pay homage to the 2016 vote, parliament should never have invoked Article 50 before looking and agreeing to how we would actually leave and how it would benefit us. Both parties put ideology before practicality and common sense. Parliament against the people. Reverse the sham that it's become: Revoke Article 50Get on it chaps. |
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BREXIT
Mar 22, 2019 12:07:32 GMT
Post by Derry Blue on Mar 22, 2019 12:07:32 GMT
“The Brexiteers have dragged us” I disagree with your comment. The 17 million plus haven’t dragged us anywhere. Leave vote won a democratic referendum, now all they want what what was promised - that we leave the EU. The mess is down to a largely Remain parliament who won’t accept that they lost, a biaised Speaker, possibly the most inept PM in living memory, a Tory party full of smug buggers like Ken Clarke and Dominic Grieve, an official opposition who are using Brexit to get into power despite the millions of their supporters who want out, a Civil Service who seem determined to thwart the process. Parliament needs to honour the result of the vote. Yes, the negotiations are difficult but too many are using those difficulties to stop us leaving. The referendum was over 3 yeras ago. Lets see if the result still stands or as I suspect, there is now a leave minority dragging a remain majority out of the EU? What percentage of that leave vote was an anti-establishment , kick in the balls for austerity? Because if it wasnt May would have gained a massive majority, at the 2017 GE, which she didn't. You’ll hardly be surprised that I disagree with you. Most people I speak with are even firmer in their opinion that we should leave. I think your perception may be skewed because the Remain supporters are more organised in offering their opinions. As for the 2017 GE, I suspect two factors. One, Jeremy Corbyn was new as a party leader and was perceived as a breath of fresh air and two, May conducted possibly the worst campaign possible - poorly advised by two idiots and alienating her key voters. Unfortunately, Jeremy Corbyn has proved to be just like all other politicians with a whiff of No. 10. He’s playing party politics with Brexit (surprising for someone who’s spent years criticising the EU) and for someone who rebelled against his own party for years because of his principles, he now brooks little disagreement with his line. In this chaos, he should be destroying the Conservative party but he isn’t. Is this because the electorate see him now as just as self-serving as all the rest? |
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BREXIT
Mar 22, 2019 12:14:42 GMT
Post by Derry Blue on Mar 22, 2019 12:14:42 GMT
.....or we could just revoke Article 50 and remain as we are. Sorted. We will never have as good a deal as we have now. It's in our remit to control our own borders if we choose to and we have a right of veto over any new laws the EU choose to bring in, even if all other 27 EU countries agree to it. A sign of a true democracy is that people can change their minds and opinions over time. Leaver/Brexiteer MP's have changed their rhetoric since 2016 and Theresa May as had two ballots (possibly a third next week) over an inferior deal that still leaves us tied to the EU. But apparently the people aren't allowed another vote. And this before even mentioning the legality of the referendum that destroys the Good Friday Agreement, democratically agreed to by 71% of people in Northern Ireland. Even if we did pay homage to the 2016 vote, parliament should never have invoked Article 50 before looking and agreeing to how we would actually leave and how it would benefit us. Both parties put ideology before practicality and common sense. Parliament against the people. Reverse the sham that it's become: Revoke Article 50Get on it chaps. Come on Marcus. Yes, the Irish border is a problem, but when you say “destroys the Good Friday Agreement” you fall into the trap of overstating the issue. And I suggest such overstating of issues by so many people has hardened divisions on both sides of this sad argument. |
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BREXIT
Mar 22, 2019 13:03:13 GMT
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Mar 22, 2019 13:03:13 GMT
The people voted for pain - words attributed to our glorious leader during that meeting earlier this week.
She's not wrong like but obviously it's another ill-judged choice of words for a Prime Minister.
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Post by Al on Mar 22, 2019 13:20:13 GMT
The people voted for pain - words attributed to our glorious leader during that meeting earlier this week. She's not wrong like but obviously it's another ill-judged choice of words for a Prime Minister. I'm not surprised in the slightest if she's said words along those lines.
The woman is a walking disaster. The sooner the House takes control of this absolute shambles the better.
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BREXIT
Mar 22, 2019 13:26:21 GMT
Post by Al on Mar 22, 2019 13:26:21 GMT
.....or we could just revoke Article 50 and remain as we are. Sorted. We will never have as good a deal as we have now. It's in our remit to control our own borders if we choose to and we have a right of veto over any new laws the EU choose to bring in, even if all other 27 EU countries agree to it. A sign of a true democracy is that people can change their minds and opinions over time. Leaver/Brexiteer MP's have changed their rhetoric since 2016 and Theresa May as had two ballots (possibly a third next week) over an inferior deal that still leaves us tied to the EU. But apparently the people aren't allowed another vote. And this before even mentioning the legality of the referendum that destroys the Good Friday Agreement, democratically agreed to by 71% of people in Northern Ireland. Even if we did pay homage to the 2016 vote, parliament should never have invoked Article 50 before looking and agreeing to how we would actually leave and how it would benefit us. Both parties put ideology before practicality and common sense. Parliament against the people. Reverse the sham that it's become: Revoke Article 50Get on it chaps. Come on Marcus. Yes, the Irish border is a problem, but when you say “destroys the Good Friday Agreement” you fall into the trap of overstating the issue. And I suggest such overstating of issues by so many people has hardened divisions on both sides of this sad argument. A hard border on the Island of Ireland contravenes the Good Friday agreement. So he's not far wrong with his wording. |
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BREXIT
Mar 22, 2019 14:02:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2019 14:02:55 GMT
Come on Marcus. Yes, the Irish border is a problem, but when you say “destroys the Good Friday Agreement” you fall into the trap of overstating the issue. And I suggest such overstating of issues by so many people has hardened divisions on both sides of this sad argument. A hard border on the Island of Ireland contravenes the Good Friday agreement. So he's not far wrong with his wording. Considering what the GFA helped to resolve I'm not sure it is overstating the issue. And yes, a hard border does contravene the GFA. The GFA is what people voted for. |
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BREXIT
Mar 22, 2019 14:30:06 GMT
Post by Derry Blue on Mar 22, 2019 14:30:06 GMT
Come on Marcus. Yes, the Irish border is a problem, but when you say “destroys the Good Friday Agreement” you fall into the trap of overstating the issue. And I suggest such overstating of issues by so many people has hardened divisions on both sides of this sad argument. A hard border on the Island of Ireland contravenes the Good Friday agreement. So he's not far wrong with his wording. My argument was that it’s the tenor of his comment “destroy”. I suggest is not the same as “contravene” |
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BREXIT
Mar 22, 2019 14:34:15 GMT
Post by Derry Blue on Mar 22, 2019 14:34:15 GMT
A hard border on the Island of Ireland contravenes the Good Friday agreement. So he's not far wrong with his wording. Considering what the GFA helped to resolve I'm not sure it is overstating the issue. And yes, a hard border does contravene the GFA. The GFA is what people voted for. I acknowledged that Brexit is a problem for the border in Ireland, I’m simply suggesting that the word “destroy” is an overstatement. Also, you’re on sticky ground on this thread wanting “what people voted for”. That’s an anathema for some on here. |
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BREXIT
Mar 23, 2019 2:49:48 GMT
Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2019 2:49:48 GMT
Considering what the GFA helped to resolve I'm not sure it is overstating the issue. And yes, a hard border does contravene the GFA. The GFA is what people voted for. I acknowledged that Brexit is a problem for the border in Ireland, I’m simply suggesting that the word “destroy” is an overstatement. Also, you’re on sticky ground on this thread wanting “what people voted for”. That’s an anathema for some on here. That’s one of the problems of this whole process. You can’t legitimize one referendum while delegitimizing a previous one on a conflicting issue. It can’t be democracy when it suits. The British Gov. new this full well when they set up the 2016 referendum, having an option on there that went against a previous vote in order to push a different agenda. This was then perpetuated by both parties when they invoked Article 50 putting the GFA at risk. Parliament is a charade, unfortunately backed by a large part of the media. What people voted for was a lie and a sham. We are so intrinsically linked to the EU it was never a straight yes or no vote. We can still reverse it, nearly up to 4 million signatures now: Revoke Article 50 Petition |
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