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BREXIT
Dec 6, 2019 19:31:15 GMT
Post by Deva Chanter on Dec 6, 2019 19:31:15 GMT
Sorry mate, missed this. I know you disagree citing Milliband which prompted the shift to the left, however my view remains that a moderate left of centre opposition smashes this shambles. I also know you don't like the use of 'left of centre' but you know what i mean. I have felt for some time that Corbyn comes with so much baggage and that the leadership is holding the country back from a labour victory. He's not vanilla like a Cameron or a Clegg, he incites fandom as much as he also has people disliking him. Its his credit as much as it'll likely be his downfall. Take Kier Starmer. Can't dislike him, he wouldnt capture an audience like Corbyn either. If he were leading the party maybe the election would focus on issues and policies and not AS etc. Just my views, irrelevant as im deeside and Tami is safe as houses. I think that's fair enough, I guess the point I would make is that if Starmer or somebody like him was the leader, then the policy platform, which is generally very popular, would be very different to what it is now. It would probably be quite similar to Miliband's policies in 2015 and I just don't think that is enough to inspire people. And I'm not blind to the fact that Corbyn, as he admitted today, is like Marmite. But for those of us on the left and far left, his leadership is a necessary route for achieving the policies and principles of the left. Also, Tami's campaign is pretty worried he's in danger here. I personally agree with you that he's safe but who knows! |
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Post by jb on Dec 6, 2019 20:22:01 GMT
Who says “people of talent”? Surely it’s “talented people” isn’t it? We all know he’s a MASSIVE racist anyway. Why did he say all Travellers should be exterminated like you did? That’s the most racist comment I’ve seen on this thread. Fortunately your extremist post was deleted. |
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BREXIT
Dec 6, 2019 20:35:25 GMT
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Post by Al on Dec 6, 2019 20:35:25 GMT
Sorry mate, missed this. I know you disagree citing Milliband which prompted the shift to the left, however my view remains that a moderate left of centre opposition smashes this shambles. I also know you don't like the use of 'left of centre' but you know what i mean. I have felt for some time that Corbyn comes with so much baggage and that the leadership is holding the country back from a labour victory. He's not vanilla like a Cameron or a Clegg, he incites fandom as much as he also has people disliking him. Its his credit as much as it'll likely be his downfall. Take Kier Starmer. Can't dislike him, he wouldnt capture an audience like Corbyn either. If he were leading the party maybe the election would focus on issues and policies and not AS etc. Just my views, irrelevant as im deeside and Tami is safe as houses. I think that's fair enough, I guess the point I would make is that if Starmer or somebody like him was the leader, then the policy platform, which is generally very popular, would be very different to what it is now. It would probably be quite similar to Miliband's policies in 2015 and I just don't think that is enough to inspire people. And I'm not blind to the fact that Corbyn, as he admitted today, is like Marmite. But for those of us on the left and far left, his leadership is a necessary route for achieving the policies and principles of the left. Also, Tami's campaign is pretty worried he's in danger here. I personally agree with you that he's safe but who knows! Aye big brexit territory here isnt it. That's the big worry. That traditional labour will go brexit and split the vote. |
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BREXIT
Dec 7, 2019 7:27:24 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 7, 2019 7:27:24 GMT
Yougov have done it again...
“Who won the last debate?”
Britain Elects 33,000 votes - Corbyn 57% Johnson 28%
Paul Brand ITV 30,000 votes - Corbyn 78% Johnson 22%
Martin Lewis 23,000 votes - Corbyn 47% Johnson 25%
The Times 8,000 votes - Corbyn 63% Johnson 37%
YouGov 1,646 polled - Corbyn 48% Johnson 51%
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BREXIT
Dec 7, 2019 18:14:56 GMT
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Post by Lobster on Dec 7, 2019 18:14:56 GMT
Had a leaflet addressed to me in the post today from the Blackpool North Conservative candidate. Talk about more money than sense!
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BREXIT
Dec 7, 2019 18:19:34 GMT
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Post by Al on Dec 7, 2019 18:19:34 GMT
Had a leaflet addressed to me in the post today from the Blackpool North Conservative candidate. Talk about more money than sense! Had one dropped in the post from the Tory standing in deeside. The usual guff. But the 'gigabit broadband across the UK' line they used was incredible. Put it this way, it will cost MORE than Labours plans to nationalise Openreach when you think of the amount of infrastructure work required, the rural locations, massive upgrade of exchanges, cabinets, pretty much ripping out all copper lines and replacing them with fibre. It would cost billions. |
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BREXIT
Dec 7, 2019 18:21:10 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 7, 2019 18:21:10 GMT
If you had to devise a plan to bring the country together as much as possible over Brexit - without destroying the economy, it would look a lot like Labour’s proposal.
This has always been their goal.
Don’t punish them at the ballot box for trying to clean up a Tory mess.
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BREXIT
Dec 7, 2019 20:51:32 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 7, 2019 20:51:32 GMT
Who says “people of talent”? Surely it’s “talented people” isn’t it? We all know he’s a MASSIVE racist anyway. As it may be, but in an election marred in bollocks we must try, where we can, to things actually said and done. He did say “people of colour” though in fairness. Good to see Red Nev speaking out against his disgusting racism this evening. |
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BREXIT
Dec 7, 2019 21:46:12 GMT
Post by Lobster on Dec 7, 2019 21:46:12 GMT
If you had to devise a plan to bring the country together as much as possible over Brexit - without destroying the economy, it would look a lot like Labour’s proposal. This has always been their goal. Don’t punish them at the ballot box for trying to clean up a Tory mess. It is strange how much criticism they get over a situation that they had very little to do with. Did the Tories, for example, ever get this much stick about the Iraq War - which they were actually complicit in? We should never have had a referendum in such ridiculous circumstances, and under a Labour government I don't believe we would have done. I'm also surprised that everyone's forgotten that Boris Johnson had an opportunity to "Get Brexit Done" straight after the referendum. He was widely expected to become PM straight after Cameron. He didn't fancy it though, and neither did the weasel Gove, so the pair of them had to fabricate a fall-out that meant neither of them could run as PM without each other. Instead, he sat back and watched the hapless May make a pig's ear of it and waited until everyone is so worn down by the whole thing, we've sleepwalked into letting him into No. 10. Why does he never get asked why he wasn't ready to be PM then, but is now? I honestly don't even think Johnson is that bothered about Brexit. He's just managed to use it to polarise the country and gain a core of support around the country, across the classes. |
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BREXIT
Dec 7, 2019 21:52:36 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 7, 2019 21:52:36 GMT
Your last paragraph sums it up. Johnson was/is a Remainer but sees “getting Brexit done” as his Trojan horse to authoritarian power. It’s a game.
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BREXIT
Dec 8, 2019 6:50:47 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 8, 2019 6:50:47 GMT
The prime minister is openly racist and our tabloids have a weird vendetta against Raheem Sterling, Dianne Abbot and Meghan Markle.
We’re headed for a bad place in this country unless we vote for real change.
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BREXIT
Dec 8, 2019 11:22:32 GMT
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Post by Lobster on Dec 8, 2019 11:22:32 GMT
Whilst there are various examples of members being investigated either previously or currently including members being suspended and then re-instated, i think one of the biggest problems Corbyn had himself was for the foreword in Hobson's book. Before the outcry, i have to say i find this kind of campaigning distasteful and americanised but unfortunately Corbyn has this little tie with AS and given there's nothing positive the Tory party can come out with, it's clearly going to be a strategy to tarnish him with it. I have to say, other politicians with this kind of mistake (if you want to call it that) would not have survived. As i've said before, i truly believe Corbyn and the direction of the party is prohibitive of the labour landslide that should follow the absolute shambles of the last 3 years. Theres www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/01/jeremy-corbyn-blind-antisemitism-hobson i read a while back. i think that explains it. It's a fair point. Although I generally support him, he is clumsy at times. Most of what gets flagged up with him is historical stuff though, I think he's learned a lot since he's been the party leader. He's not a superhuman and I understand why some think he's not a leader. I just think he's generally a good bloke with good intentions, and a damn sight better than what we've got at the moment.
Not sure I agree that other politicians wouldn't have survived this sort of thing. Boris compared Muslims wearing veils to letterboxes only a few months ago, the DUP have been linked to some horrendous stuff, and the US President tweets worse than this every day before he's had his breakfast!
Another thought on this - Winston Churchill said and did some shockingly bigoted things. He disliked Jews, thought blacks were an inferior race and supported concentration camps in South Africa. There doesn't seem to be the same expectation to denounce this behavour when people (including Johnson) lavish praise on him. Also, interesting to note that three Conservative candidates are being accused of anti-Semitism. I presume the party will be scrutinising this intensely given their strong views on the matter? |
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BREXIT
Dec 8, 2019 11:38:53 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 11:38:53 GMT
How accurate are opinion poles. Most poles say they have asked between 1 and 10 thousand people for an opinion. Given there are 650 seats available and assuming they would need to ask somebody in every constituency, this equates to between 1.5 to 16 people in each constituency. Is this how it works or do the main party's just ask people in con clubs labour clubs or Liberal clubs. As I have said many times I have never been asked an opinion.
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BREXIT
Dec 8, 2019 14:02:24 GMT
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Post by Lobster on Dec 8, 2019 14:02:24 GMT
How accurate are opinion poles. Most poles say they have asked between 1 and 10 thousand people for an opinion. Given there are 650 seats available and assuming they would need to ask somebody in every constituency, this equates to between 1.5 to 16 people in each constituency. Is this how it works or do the main party's just ask people in con clubs labour clubs or Liberal clubs. As I have said many times I have never been asked an opinion. Not very accurate at all I don't think, hence why they all say something different. They were generally wrong for the Brexit vote, US election, and 2017 UK election. The exit pills tend to be pretty spot on though. |
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BREXIT
Dec 8, 2019 23:50:00 GMT
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Post by jb on Dec 8, 2019 23:50:00 GMT
John McDonnell embarrassing himself on Johnny Marr’s brother’s show today.
He managed to contradict himself in 10 seconds when discussing anti-Semitic behaviour. He said there was only a small number involved in anti-Semitic behaviour within the party. Then seconds later said they’d kicked out large numbers from the party for such behaviour, The bloke is an absolute embarrassment.
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BREXIT
Dec 9, 2019 1:29:30 GMT
Post by mcseal on Dec 9, 2019 1:29:30 GMT
Had a leaflet addressed to me in the post today from the Blackpool North Conservative candidate. Talk about more money than sense! My son, who's 16 (and hance can't vote) had a personally addressed leaflet from the Brexit Party. He was mortally offended! |
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BREXIT
Dec 9, 2019 1:35:10 GMT
Post by mcseal on Dec 9, 2019 1:35:10 GMT
If you had to devise a plan to bring the country together as much as possible over Brexit - without destroying the economy, it would look a lot like Labour’s proposal. This has always been their goal. Don’t punish them at the ballot box for trying to clean up a Tory mess. That was never their goal. They just didn't want to offend either their brexitty northern heartlands or their remainery London metropolitans so had to ride both horses. They just hit on the 'bringing the country together' schtick late in the day because it conveniently helped them to continue the charade. |
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BREXIT
Dec 9, 2019 7:14:55 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 9, 2019 7:14:55 GMT
Did anybody see the Tory being scrutinised on the Channel 4 debate last night?
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Post by jb on Dec 9, 2019 9:47:57 GMT
Did anybody see the Tory being scrutinised on the Channel 4 debate last night? Did he embarrass himself as much as McDonnell yesterday? |
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BREXIT
Dec 9, 2019 14:51:44 GMT
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Post by utb on Dec 9, 2019 14:51:44 GMT
What are we thinking regarding Chester? Matheson safe as houses? Have to say it’s been very similar to two years walking around Chester, Labour placards everywhere. I think Chester becoming more and more of a student city has had a big impact. I like Matheson to be fair, can’t take to the Tories parachuting people in from outside the city.
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BREXIT
Dec 9, 2019 16:05:52 GMT
Post by iandychesterfc on Dec 9, 2019 16:05:52 GMT
Think Matheson will be ok, the really odd one is Wrexham where much liked Ian Lucas is not standing and so you'd think the Tories would have a go but they've selected a nobody, who's not coming across well (in my opinion)
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BREXIT
Dec 9, 2019 16:12:57 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 16:12:57 GMT
Been quite a lot on Welsh news about Wrexham seems loads are voting brexit.
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BREXIT
Dec 9, 2019 16:36:31 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 9, 2019 16:36:31 GMT
Always been backwards haven’t they round there.
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BREXIT
Dec 9, 2019 16:38:19 GMT
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jb likes this
Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 16:38:19 GMT
thinl that could be construed as racist.
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Post by Deva Chanter on Dec 9, 2019 16:54:23 GMT
Matheson looks very safe in Chester - can't see it going Tory anytime soon.
Wrexham is a weird one - how on earth could a place like that be a Tory seat? A very real case of turkeys voting for Christmas. Didn't help that Labour picked an absolute nobody Blairite as their candidate who I would imagine isn't going down very well on the doorstep.
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BREXIT
Dec 9, 2019 17:08:47 GMT
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Post by Ian H Block on Dec 9, 2019 17:08:47 GMT
Been quite a lot on Welsh news about Wrexham seems loads are voting brexit. Brexit isn’t on the ballot paper. |
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BREXIT
Dec 9, 2019 17:22:08 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 17:22:08 GMT
they voted in large numbers to leave e u and are not happy thier elected mp voted against it .brexit is a code word for conservative I'm very wary of using thier name on this thread as it brings only abuse
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BREXIT
Dec 9, 2019 17:29:03 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 17:29:03 GMT
wrexham voted 41000 to leave 28000 to remain witha very high turnout
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BREXIT
Dec 9, 2019 17:59:11 GMT
Post by Lobster on Dec 9, 2019 17:59:11 GMT
I've seen a meme going around that says we should tell Brexit obsessives that they can really make sure Brexit happens by putting an X next to both the Conservatives and the Brexit Party. I honestly wonder if that would work if it was widely publicised or not.
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Post by Lobster on Dec 9, 2019 18:01:20 GMT
wrexham voted 41000 to leave 28000 to remain witha very high turnout If Wrexham can have a chip on its shoulder about anything, it will do, so not surprising they've got a problem with the EU as well as just about everyone and everything else. |
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