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BREXIT
Dec 28, 2019 12:32:26 GMT
Post by Lobster on Dec 28, 2019 12:32:26 GMT
Remember, this is the People’s Parliament now. Just not the disabled people’s... Good to see our People’s Prime Minister working so hard since the election, at his £20k a week private Caribbean retreat with his bit on the side. He’s definitely one of us... He's saved us from Corbyn. He's earnt it. Serious question, putting Corbyn aside for a second, are you actually happy that Boris Johnson is Prime Minister? Because I kind of think that's the big problem. You come across as pretty moderate and central, yet you seem to be batting on the side of someone who represents the far-right (at least economically) and is a bigot, a coward and a liar to boot. |
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BREXIT
Dec 28, 2019 12:39:07 GMT
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Dec 28, 2019 12:39:07 GMT
He's saved us from Corbyn. He's earnt it. Serious question, putting Corbyn aside for a second, are you actually happy that Boris Johnson is Prime Minister? Because I kind of think that's the big problem. You come across as pretty moderate and central, yet you seem to be batting on the side of someone who represents the far-right (at least economically) and is a bigot, a coward and a liar to boot. As I've said, he's probably the lesser of two evils. Your previous posts have suggested though you think Corbyn is a decent person. That's surely as big a problem as someone who is 'batting' for Johnson? |
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BREXIT
Dec 28, 2019 13:14:16 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 28, 2019 13:14:16 GMT
Ok then, what makes you disagree with the comment “Jeremy Corbyn is a decent person”?
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BREXIT
Dec 28, 2019 13:37:11 GMT
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Dec 28, 2019 13:37:11 GMT
Ok then, what makes you disagree with the comment “Jeremy Corbyn is a decent person”? Nope, I'm not playing that game again. You'll only start to childishly complain about MSM, right wing press, BBC bias, stupid voters, etc. Have I missed any out? You and Lobster have highlighted what too many on the left remain blind to. Many people who voted Conservative aren't Johnson supporters, they just couldn't touch Labour with a bargepole. You still don't understand why that is though outside of Brexit. |
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BREXIT
Dec 28, 2019 13:47:20 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 28, 2019 13:47:20 GMT
If you’re can’t tell us why you think that, then your opinion is of zero value.
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BREXIT
Dec 28, 2019 13:53:39 GMT
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Dec 28, 2019 13:53:39 GMT
If you’re can’t tell us why you think that, then your opinion is of zero value. What is of zero value is explaining the same thing to someone repeatedly. It's all over the last 80 odd pages if you need it SB, I'm going the game. |
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BREXIT
Dec 28, 2019 14:06:14 GMT
Post by Lobster on Dec 28, 2019 14:06:14 GMT
Ok then, what makes you disagree with the comment “Jeremy Corbyn is a decent person”? Nope, I'm not playing that game again. You'll only start to childishly complain about MSM, right wing press, BBC bias, stupid voters, etc. Have I missed any out? You and Lobster have highlighted what too many on the left remain blind to. Many people who voted Conservative aren't Johnson supporters, they just couldn't touch Labour with a bargepole. You still don't understand why that is though outside of Brexit. You're right, to be honest, I don't understand it. Nobody's explained it in a way that makes much sense to me. Anyway it's water under the bridge now. Corbyn is on his way, but Johnson isn't, and I would just suggest that everyone watches him very carefully indeed, whether they voted for him or not. |
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BREXIT
Dec 29, 2019 9:27:44 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 29, 2019 9:27:44 GMT
The establishment knives are out already for Ian Lavery - a northern ex-miner. That’s good enough for me.
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BREXIT
Dec 29, 2019 23:03:55 GMT
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Post by 1paulcarden on Dec 29, 2019 23:03:55 GMT
The establishment knives are out already for Ian Lavery - a northern ex-miner. That’s good enough for me. For someone who claims to the hate the Tories you don’t half agree with them on choices of leader. They’d be delighted if Lavery or Long Bailey became leader. Maybe start thinking of someone who can win a bloody election. |
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ddod
Junior Member
Posts: 76
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BREXIT
Dec 29, 2019 23:45:03 GMT
Post by ddod on Dec 29, 2019 23:45:03 GMT
Decade of Tory rule.
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BREXIT
Dec 30, 2019 1:37:37 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 30, 2019 1:37:37 GMT
The establishment knives are out already for Ian Lavery - a northern ex-miner. That’s good enough for me. For someone who claims to the hate the Tories you don’t half agree with them on choices of leader. They’d be delighted if Lavery or Long Bailey became leader. Maybe start thinking of someone who can win a bloody election. A London-centric Blairite Remainer like Starmer is not going to win Labour’s heartlands back. |
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BREXIT
Dec 30, 2019 6:10:45 GMT
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Dec 30, 2019 6:10:45 GMT
The establishment knives are out already for Ian Lavery - a northern ex-miner. That’s good enough for me. For someone who claims to the hate the Tories you don’t half agree with them on choices of leader. They’d be delighted if Lavery or Long Bailey became leader. Maybe start thinking of someone who can win a bloody election. There does seem to be an appreciable discrepancy between Labour members and the rest of the country over which type of candidate would be best placed to challenge the Tories. |
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BREXIT
Dec 30, 2019 6:33:01 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 30, 2019 6:33:01 GMT
For someone who claims to the hate the Tories you don’t half agree with them on choices of leader. They’d be delighted if Lavery or Long Bailey became leader. Maybe start thinking of someone who can win a bloody election. There does seem to be an appreciable discrepancy between Labour members and the rest of the country over which type of candidate would be best placed to challenge the Tories. Perhaps the rest of the country should join the Party so they can make their opinion count and shape the future of the Party the way they want to? |
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BREXIT
Dec 30, 2019 20:34:25 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 30, 2019 20:34:25 GMT
Only over the changed Brexit position, proving Corbyn was right to respect the result of the referendum but wrong to allow the centrists to change his mind this year. The point I was making was, just like CFU, there’s no point shouting from the outside about how you think things should be done. Join and make your voice heard x Brexit wasnt the ONLY deciding factor in people refusing to vote Labour. You can add a distrust of the man heading the party and policy as well. I expect the thorough investigation into why Labour failed - being headed by Ed Milliband - will show this in the results. It is quite right that a thorough investigation takes place targeting specifically those people that voted conservative for the first time in their lives to understand what the driving factors were for their change of vote. If Labour can start to build bridges with the disenfranchised traditional Labour voters through pro-active engagement initiatives then they might actually get somewhere in 5 years time. 52 of the 54 seats that Labour lost voted to Leave the EU. It isn’t rocket science. The fact that Miliband and his merry band of the centre right of the party are heading up this “review” will tell us all we need to know. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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BREXIT
Dec 30, 2019 20:35:53 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2019 20:35:53 GMT
They must first accept they got it totally wrong they are still in denial. Corbyn is a marmite character and the stance on brexit was the nail in the coffin.
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BREXIT
Dec 30, 2019 22:26:27 GMT
Post by Lobster on Dec 30, 2019 22:26:27 GMT
They must first accept they got it totally wrong they are still in denial. Corbyn is a marmite character and the stance on brexit was the nail in the coffin. For the last time, Corbyn is leaving. And the real 'Marmite' would have been to pick a side, wouldn't it, given that people are roughly 50/50 split on the matter? I thought Labour's Brexit stance made a lot of sense personally - do it again, properly this time, and accept the people's vote without trying to influence it. Obviously I'm in the minority though. |
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Post by Lobster on Dec 30, 2019 22:37:27 GMT
I see that Finland's newly elected government, a coalition of five women mostly in their 30s, has come up with a radical solution to the problem of homelessness - give them a home!
This is progressive politics in my opinion, and it shames us. What a pity we still seem to view compassion as a weakness over here.
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BREXIT
Dec 30, 2019 23:59:04 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 30, 2019 23:59:04 GMT
I see that Finland's newly elected government, a coalition of five women mostly in their 30s, has come up with a radical solution to the problem of homelessness - give them a home! This is progressive politics in my opinion, and it shames us. What a pity we still seem to view compassion as a weakness over here. Labour pledged it, the MSM told us all it couldn’t be done. Thank Christ for the likes of Scandinavia, Portugal and Cuba (recently announced as the most sustainably developed country in the world) shining a light in a world of far right populism. |
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BREXIT
Jan 1, 2020 21:41:00 GMT
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Post by 1paulcarden on Jan 1, 2020 21:41:00 GMT
Brexit wasnt the ONLY deciding factor in people refusing to vote Labour. You can add a distrust of the man heading the party and policy as well. I expect the thorough investigation into why Labour failed - being headed by Ed Milliband - will show this in the results. It is quite right that a thorough investigation takes place targeting specifically those people that voted conservative for the first time in their lives to understand what the driving factors were for their change of vote. If Labour can start to build bridges with the disenfranchised traditional Labour voters through pro-active engagement initiatives then they might actually get somewhere in 5 years time. 52 of the 54 seats that Labour lost voted to Leave the EU. It isn’t rocket science. The fact that Miliband and his merry band of the centre right of the party are heading up this “review” will tell us all we need to know. Sorry to break it to you but you & Deva Chanter are Tory assets mate. Couldn’t have done a better job if you’d actively campaigned for the Tories. Purists at their most ineffective. Listen to you two and Labour May as well disband now. Sadly, the Labour I believed in actually won elections and had policies that had impact because they had fucking power. Yours belongs in students’ bedrooms. |
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BREXIT
Jan 1, 2020 21:59:21 GMT
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Post by 1paulcarden on Jan 1, 2020 21:59:21 GMT
It looks like some mps never learn. Mark tami scraped home by under 200 hundred votes while losing 50000 votes standing in brexit voting constituency. What does he do votes against brexit Bill. Where do they get their arrogance. he could have abstained It was 213 votes. He was elected on a Labour manifesto which last time I checked didn't have a policy in it saying they would vote for Boris Johnson's Brexit deal. I despise the way people have tried to make this debate so binary. I'm a Labour Leave voter but if I were an MP there is no way I would be voting for this deal when it doesn't contain any protections whatsoever for workers rights. Corbyn & Leave?!! Christ. Jon McCarthy & Mark Maguire politics. |
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BREXIT
Jan 1, 2020 23:12:02 GMT
Post by Deva Chanter on Jan 1, 2020 23:12:02 GMT
It was 213 votes. He was elected on a Labour manifesto which last time I checked didn't have a policy in it saying they would vote for Boris Johnson's Brexit deal. I despise the way people have tried to make this debate so binary. I'm a Labour Leave voter but if I were an MP there is no way I would be voting for this deal when it doesn't contain any protections whatsoever for workers rights. Corbyn & Leave?!! Christ. Jon McCarthy & Mark Maguire politics. Tony needs some help washing his hands, off you pop. |
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BREXIT
Jan 1, 2020 23:28:40 GMT
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Post by 1paulcarden on Jan 1, 2020 23:28:40 GMT
Corbyn & Leave?!! Christ. Jon McCarthy & Mark Maguire politics. Pathetic ad hominem from someone who doesn't have the bollocks to state any political beliefs beyond criticising others. My political beliefs are left wing but to stay as far away from yours and Mancot’s as possible. I’m interested in a Labour government not a Labour cult. The fact you voted Leave whilst being a passionate Corbynista means that to progress we need to leave you fellas back in the 70s. |
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BREXIT
Jan 1, 2020 23:30:02 GMT
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Post by 1paulcarden on Jan 1, 2020 23:30:02 GMT
Corbyn & Leave?!! Christ. Jon McCarthy & Mark Maguire politics. Tony needs some help washing his hands, off you pop. Needs some help being told how to win elections like Jezza did in 2017? |
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BREXIT
Jan 1, 2020 23:36:25 GMT
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Post by 1paulcarden on Jan 1, 2020 23:36:25 GMT
Keri Starmer overwhelming favourite in tonight’s YouGov poll. Hopefully this is true and we can have an opposition for the first time in 5 years.
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ddod
Junior Member
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BREXIT
Jan 2, 2020 0:06:04 GMT
Post by ddod on Jan 2, 2020 0:06:04 GMT
Isn't the supreme leader anti-EU anyway?
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BREXIT
Jan 2, 2020 0:07:21 GMT
Post by Deva Chanter on Jan 2, 2020 0:07:21 GMT
Pathetic ad hominem from someone who doesn't have the bollocks to state any political beliefs beyond criticising others. My political beliefs are left wing but to stay as far away from yours and Mancot’s as possible. I’m interested in a Labour government not a Labour cult. The fact you voted Leave whilst being a passionate Corbynista means that to progress we need to leave you fellas back in the 70s. I wasn't even born in the 70's so good luck leaving me back there. But at least it's nice to see that the period of centrist exile and reflection hasn't done anything to dent your political snobbery and arrogance. |
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BREXIT
Jan 2, 2020 0:26:07 GMT
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Post by 1paulcarden on Jan 2, 2020 0:26:07 GMT
My political beliefs are left wing but to stay as far away from yours and Mancot’s as possible. I’m interested in a Labour government not a Labour cult. The fact you voted Leave whilst being a passionate Corbynista means that to progress we need to leave you fellas back in the 70s. I wasn't even born in the 70's so good luck leaving me back there. But at least it's nice to see that the period of centrist exile and reflection hasn't done anything to dent your political snobbery and arrogance. Indeed. Left it to you lads and it’s come back in rude health. Let’s be honest, we’ve tried the puritanical bollocks and it’s ruined everything it’s touched. Hopefully we can have some moderate and sensible politics that will appeal to people and results in a crazy and alien thing called winning elections. |
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BREXIT
Jan 2, 2020 4:02:12 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Jan 2, 2020 4:02:12 GMT
Every centrist defector, and Swinson, lost their seat pal.
In 2017 Corbyn was leader, the manifesto was radical, the position on Brexit was to respect the referendum, Labour wiped out a Tory majority with the biggest increase in vote share for almost half a century.
In 2019, Corbyn was leader, the manifesto was radical, the position on Brexit was changed to have a second referendum, Labour lost record numbers of seats (52/54 in Leave areas).
The leader didn’t change, the radical socialist policies didn’t change, the position on Brexit did. They are the facts. As I said above, it isn’t rocket science.
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Post by Lobster on Jan 2, 2020 9:54:07 GMT
It was 213 votes. He was elected on a Labour manifesto which last time I checked didn't have a policy in it saying they would vote for Boris Johnson's Brexit deal. I despise the way people have tried to make this debate so binary. I'm a Labour Leave voter but if I were an MP there is no way I would be voting for this deal when it doesn't contain any protections whatsoever for workers rights. Corbyn & Leave?!! Christ. Jon McCarthy & Mark Maguire politics. Very common for socialists to be on the Leave side. It was the position taken by most of the minor socialist parties in the run-up to the election.
In a way, it's contradictory to be left-wing and pro-EU. My main problem with Brexit is the xenophobic, little Englander mentality that's dominated the debate, rather than any particular love of the EU.
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BREXIT
Jan 2, 2020 10:37:17 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Jan 2, 2020 10:37:17 GMT
Indeed as I posted the other day, Lexiteers (very good left wing cases for leaving the EU) were sounded out by the xenophobes who were more successful in getting their message across with simple soundbites rather than boring political talk.
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