|
Post by Matt on Jul 12, 2018 9:07:57 GMT
Lack of experience proved our downfall but what an effort from such a young group and they'll be better for it in future tournaments. Iceland and 20+ years of going out with a whimper has been redeemed. Only see France winning it same if England progressed. Mbappe will relish taking on Lovren.
|
|
|
Post by keysersoze on Jul 12, 2018 9:43:35 GMT
Harry Kane far too deep. Unfortunately his captaincy prevented the manager from doing the sensible thing and bring him off. His left foot went missing completely when through on goal. TWICE. Whatever happened to being able to use both feet? Kyle Walker waited for the ball to come to him rather than attack the cross, which allowed that split second for Croatia to equalise. It had been coming and the manager failed to prepare for it . Back three worked well when fresh but Southgate failed to support them as they tired. Look at how Modric only came into the game late on as England tired. I was about to say the same thing. 2nd half Croatia pushed their front 3 right up the pitch and forced our wing backs into a back 5. That left space for their own full backs to push forward and Lingard and Alli couldn't cover the ground to close them down. Their equaliser came from a cross from the right from the right back (who looked a very good player) that Alli couldn't stop. I'd level a bit of blame on Southgate for not altering shape/tactics to deal with this (should have gone to 4 in midfield or told Sterling / Rashford to cover the flanks more) but it was a pretty limp performance all round and, painful as it is to admit, we didn't deserve to go through.
|
|
|
Post by agl on Jul 12, 2018 10:24:06 GMT
Lack of experience proved our downfall but what an effort from such a young group and they'll be better for it in future tournaments. Iceland and 20+ years of going out with a whimper has been redeemed. Only see France winning it same if England progressed. Mbappe will relish taking on Lovren. While there were undoubtedly many positives, a dose of reality is needed. We beat only teams ranked below us and came up short against a nation which has a population of 4m (also ranked below us). The freakish route that opened up on that side of the draw gave us an incredible opportunity to reach the final and, like it or not, we blew it. We are nothing more than a decent team, with no outstanding players. I fear a few too many got swept up in the 'football's coming home' nonsense. We are so used to failure that we will grasp at mediocrity. Whether or not the players will be any better for the experience, I doubt. It was lack of quality in key areas, not lack of experience...look at Mbappe.
On the plus side the planning was meticulous, the willingness of Southgate and the players to actually engage with fans/media was a novelty and I enjoyed watching England centre halves look comfortable on the ball. Pickford was also a revelation after the calamitous Hart, but there were a lot of 6 out of 10 performances in the tournament. On balance, Southgate probably got the squad right although I still feel a gamble on Lallana was worth a punt.
|
|
|
Post by Hannibal on Jul 12, 2018 11:30:18 GMT
Lack of experience proved our downfall but what an effort from such a young group and they'll be better for it in future tournaments. Iceland and 20+ years of going out with a whimper has been redeemed. Only see France winning it same if England progressed. Mbappe will relish taking on Lovren. While there were undoubtedly many positives, a dose of reality is needed. We beat only teams ranked below us and came up short against a nation which has a population of 4m (also ranked below us). The freakish route that opened up on that side of the draw gave us an incredible opportunity to reach the final and, like it or not, we blew it. We are nothing more than a decent team, with no outstanding players. I fear a few too many got swept up in the 'football's coming home' nonsense. We are so used to failure that we will grasp at mediocrity. Whether or not the players will be any better for the experience, I doubt. It was lack of quality in key areas, not lack of experience...look at Mbappe.
On the plus side the planning was meticulous, the willingness of Southgate and the players to actually engage with fans/media was a novelty and I enjoyed watching England centre halves look comfortable on the ball. Pickford was also a revelation after the calamitous Hart, but there were a lot of 6 out of 10 performances in the tournament. On balance, Southgate probably got the squad right although I still feel a gamble on Lallana was worth a punt.
My feelings as well. I don't think this side is as good as the team that went out to Germany in 1990. Once Croatia equalised I felt we had to hang on and try our luck with penalties again, but when the defence switched off for the second there was no way back. Where we once had the Lampard/Gerrard conundrum we now have the Trippier/Walker conundrum. I think Walker's inexperience at CH cost us 2 goals in the tournament, the second of which killed us.
|
|
|
Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jul 12, 2018 11:34:19 GMT
England U17s - World Cup winners England U19s - Euros winners England U20s - World Cup winners England U21s - Euros semi-finalists England seniors - World Cup semi-finalists
The "seniors" are a very young team, too. The future is bright providing the upcoming kids are given game time at elite level.
Germany, the previous reigning world champions, took a few attempts to get there - semi's 2006, runners-up 2008, semi's 2010, semi's 2012, winners 2014. We will be better for this defeat and we will want to be a side, as Southgate says, that routinely hits semi's and finals.
|
|
|
Post by South Wirral Blue on Jul 12, 2018 11:34:41 GMT
This is a young England team and although we've not beaten a world class side at this tournament, who is to say we won't be able to at the next Euro's or in Qatar?
We also shouldn't take beating the likes of Sweden or Colombia for granted. Spain lost to Russia, for example, in the last 16.
I agree we need to improve to be a credible threat in two year's time but they're young enough to do so and Southgate has conceded as much.
Remember - the semis and final of Euro 2020 will all be held at Wembley. What a great incentive for our youngsters to be apart of what would be a memorable occasion.
|
|
|
Post by agl on Jul 12, 2018 11:52:05 GMT
England U17s - World Cup winners England U19s - Euros winners England U20s - World Cup winners England U21s - Euros semi-finalists England seniors - World Cup semi-finalists The "seniors" are a very young team, too. The future is bright providing the upcoming kids are given game time at elite level. Germany, the previous reigning world champions, took a few attempts to get there - semi's 2006, runners-up 2008, semi's 2010, semi's 2012, winners 2014. We will be better for this defeat and we will want to be a side, as Southgate says, that routinely hits semi's and finals. Only time will tell but don't share your optimism. If these young players are so good they should be knocking on the door of the senior squad, like Owen back in the day, but frankly I couldn't name any of them. Winning junior tournaments is one thing, converting to senior success is another. And while the Premier league is awash with foreign talent these kids won't get a look in at their clubs to gain the experience they need.
|
|
|
Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jul 12, 2018 11:56:23 GMT
England U17s - World Cup winners England U19s - Euros winners England U20s - World Cup winners England U21s - Euros semi-finalists England seniors - World Cup semi-finalists The "seniors" are a very young team, too. The future is bright providing the upcoming kids are given game time at elite level. Germany, the previous reigning world champions, took a few attempts to get there - semi's 2006, runners-up 2008, semi's 2010, semi's 2012, winners 2014. We will be better for this defeat and we will want to be a side, as Southgate says, that routinely hits semi's and finals. Only time will tell but don't share your optimism. If these young players are so good they should be knocking on the door of the senior squad, like Owen back in the day, but frankly I couldn't name any of them. Winning junior tournaments is one thing, converting to senior success is another. And while the Premier league is awash with foreign talent these kids won't get a look in at their clubs to gain the experience they need. Could be the sole positive outcome of Brexit, a homegrown quota at top level football. It has to happen.
|
|
|
Post by chislenko on Jul 12, 2018 14:20:01 GMT
Only time will tell but don't share your optimism. If these young players are so good they should be knocking on the door of the senior squad, like Owen back in the day, but frankly I couldn't name any of them. Winning junior tournaments is one thing, converting to senior success is another. And while the Premier league is awash with foreign talent these kids won't get a look in at their clubs to gain the experience they need. Could be the sole positive outcome of Brexit, a homegrown quota at top level football. It has to happen. Homegrown? A good proportion of the younger generation players England have were born in Africa. It's a bit like saying Mo Farah or Chris Froome are home grown.
|
|
|
Post by hughdemann on Jul 12, 2018 14:30:21 GMT
Enjoyed the ride.
We were very positive at the start of matches, creating chances, and putting opposition under pressure, but we usually paid for this in later stages of games as our second half performances were not as good as first half.
Our set pieces were really good, but our goals from open play were insufficient, and defenders probably scored more than the forwards.
Kane and Lingard will have sleepless nights over those two first half chances they tried to "pass" into the net. One of those two chances taken would probably have been enough
|
|
|
Post by g1 on Jul 12, 2018 16:13:25 GMT
Whilst its disappointing let's credit Croatia whilst not the best side one of the smaller nations to reach the final have 3 of my favorite players ever to play the game a star in perisic and a unity like no other only one thing bothers me lovern is in a world cup final come in Croatia beat the French
|
|
|
Post by g1 on Jul 12, 2018 16:15:05 GMT
England lack a real creative MF to go further in tournaments alli not for me sorry
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2018 17:58:48 GMT
Croatia outplayed us from half time onwards. Really enjoyed watching an England team who performed without fear, and did better than most expected.
The story of Modric from his family having to flee his home village when he was 6, living in a hotel for the duration of the war. His Grandad was slaughtered by Croat Serbian police in their village,along with 5 other senior citizens, hkuse burned down etc.
To come from that to lead your team out in a WC final is immense. Hope they beat France.
|
|
|
Post by Lobster on Jul 12, 2018 18:16:02 GMT
Whilst its disappointing let's credit Croatia whilst not the best side one of the smaller nations to reach the final have 3 of my favorite players ever to play the game a star in perisic and a unity like no other only one thing bothers me lovern is in a world cup final come in Croatia beat the French Yes, I’m quite surprised how little credit they’re getting, with a lot of people disappointed it was “only Croatia” who eliminated England. Gary Neville even said at half time that they were a poor side, which I thought was ridiculous. Who has been better than them throughout this tournament? Their group wasn’t an easy and they won all three games, including destroying Argentina. In the knockout stage they’ve shown their mettle by beating three teams over 120+ mins, including the hosts. They’re a really good team, and not just Modric. Perisic, Mandzukic and Rakatic are quality, and how good is their right back Vrsaljko? Solid goalkeeper, centre half pairing is a bit erratic but good on their day. I wouldn’t be surprised if they beat France in the final and I hope they do. A new name in the trophy would be a nice end to what has been the best World Cup I’ve seen.
|
|
|
Post by soulseal on Jul 12, 2018 18:26:49 GMT
Enjoyed the ride. We were very positive at the start of matches, creating chances, and putting opposition under pressure, but we usually paid for this in later stages of games as our second half performances were not as good as first half. Our set pieces were really good, but our goals from open play were insufficient, and defenders probably scored more than the forwards. Kane and Lingard will have sleepless nights over those two first half chances they tried to "pass" into the net. One of those two chances taken would probably have been enough Me to. I didnt have any ambitions at the start so really enjoyed the wins against Tunisia and Panama in particular. We don’t have the players at the moment so full credit for Southgate. If we can, through good preparation get a regular chance at quarters and semis then one of them is going to go our way. Croatia forced us back in the second half by pressing and because they were behind developed the attacking mentality. I was hoping for penalties because I knew that had become our only chance. Thought Loren was fortunate to not be booked early on as well. Im now really keen for the Spain game in the new International ‘league’ structure, a bit more definite competition at last and opportunity to continue to develop the team further. Weve not got the best team yet, but we went further than expected rather than the usual under performance. Well done England.
|
|
|
Post by devadiva on Jul 12, 2018 19:09:16 GMT
Let’s be positive - all bodes well for the Euros in a couple of years time. By then we’ll be more experienced and a bit more savvy.
|
|
|
Post by Al on Jul 12, 2018 19:23:24 GMT
The future is indeed very bright when you take into consideration our world beating youth teams.
What we need are the Premier League to get fully onboard with this and adopt a fit and proper home grown ruling which embraces youth development and gives these boys, and those future boys, the time, coaching and first team opportunities they need to florish on the international stage.
|
|
|
Post by Jack on Jul 12, 2018 19:38:34 GMT
I actually do think Croatia are a decent side, nothing more. About the same as us at this moment in time.
We lacked a clinical, cutting edge throughout the tournament. To go on to win world cups, you need to capitalise on a very dominant first 45 minutes. Had we got a second, it's a different game entirely. Moments like Kane's miss, Lingard's one where he scuffed it wide etc are so crucial. Throughout the tournament, apart from Panama, it's been our weakness.
But Southgate is right, every single player in our squad will be a better player in 2 years and will be stronger mentally for the experience. We got the penalty monkey off our back too, which is a huge thing.
I really do think we could well be looking at a bright era for English football. Our manager is a total class act, and has finally given us a way of playing that will define us.
|
|
|
Post by chislenko on Jul 12, 2018 20:11:51 GMT
Two posts now about world beating youth teams but none of you appear able to acknowledge that the better players in these youth teams are not actually English. Do we want football to go the way of rugger and cricket, personally I don't.
Remember the FA tried to get the bloke who scored for Belgium in the group stage to be English on the residency rule, total joke of your nationality in my book.
|
|
|
Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jul 12, 2018 20:37:20 GMT
Two posts now about world beating youth teams but none of you appear able to acknowledge that the better players in these youth teams are not actually English. Do we want football to go the way of rugger and cricket, personally I don't. Remember the FA tried to get the bloke who scored for Belgium in the group stage to be English on the residency rule, total joke of your nationality in my book. What's your beef pal? This team, and the youth teams, embody what England as a nation is these days. They certainly represent England better than UKIP...
|
|
|
Post by Oaks Blue on Jul 12, 2018 20:38:30 GMT
Two posts now about world beating youth teams but none of you appear able to acknowledge that the better players in these youth teams are not actually English. Do we want football to go the way of rugger and cricket, personally I don't. Remember the FA tried to get the bloke who scored for Belgium in the group stage to be English on the residency rule, total joke of your nationality in my book. The Germans have been doing it for years... Ozil Klose Can Boateng Podolski That's just off the top of my head, plenty more If they are good enough and have/can get English citizenship then why not!
|
|
|
Post by Deva Chanter on Jul 12, 2018 20:40:14 GMT
The future is indeed very bright when you take into consideration our world beating youth teams. What we need are the Premier League to get fully onboard with this and adopt a fit and proper home grown ruling which embraces youth development and gives these boys, and those future boys, the time, coaching and first team opportunities they need to florish on the international stage. I'm not actually sure I agree with this notion that a home grown ruling is the key to unlocking international success. Look back at when we had our so-called golden generation - Rio Ferdinand, Ashley Cole, Gary Neville, John Terry, Steven Gerrard, Frank Lampard, David Beckham, Michael Owen, Wayne Rooney et al. - this was before the huge influx of foreign players in the Premier League and all of those players were playing week-in, week-out for the best teams in the country. Didn't win us any silverware did it? The team we currently have, made up of players who have plied their trade in the Football League and who play their football across a whole host of different clubs, have had to work so much harder for their chance in the Premier League and Gareth Southgate has rightfully rewarded those who have done so successfully. I'd be more interested in looking at what countries like Uruguay and Croatia are doing differently - these are small countries who consistently punch above their weight internationally. I think one of the most refreshing things about both Southgate, and this World Cup generally, has been the belief that the team is far more important than any individual and that a squad can equal far more than the sum of its individual parts.
|
|
|
Post by chislenko on Jul 12, 2018 20:43:52 GMT
Two posts now about world beating youth teams but none of you appear able to acknowledge that the better players in these youth teams are not actually English. Do we want football to go the way of rugger and cricket, personally I don't. Remember the FA tried to get the bloke who scored for Belgium in the group stage to be English on the residency rule, total joke of your nationality in my book. The Germans have been doing it for years... Ozil Klose Can Boateng Podolski That's just off the top of my head, plenty more If they are good enough and have/can get English citizenship then why not! Because it devalues international football to a position where it becomes like cricket and rugger. You may be happy with a win at any cost situation but it does not appeal to me. Brazilian Diego Costa playing centre forward for Spain etc, I was brought up with my nationality and nothing, money, spotlight, etc would make me change it.
|
|
|
Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jul 12, 2018 20:45:21 GMT
Looking ahead to the final, I know it's obvious to say but when you look back through the tournament I genuinely think the best two sides will be contesting it. You can't say either team don't deserve their place in the final and you can't say any other side deserve to be there instead.
Looking forward to it.
|
|
|
Post by Oaks Blue on Jul 12, 2018 20:47:23 GMT
The Germans have been doing it for years... Ozil Klose Can Boateng Podolski That's just off the top of my head, plenty more If they are good enough and have/can get English citizenship then why not! Because it devalues international football to a position where it becomes like cricket and rugger. You may be happy with a win at any cost situation but it does not appeal to me. Brazilian Diego Costa playing centre forward for Spain etc, I was brought up with my nationality and nothing, money, spotlight, etc would make me change it. Don't agree with what you say in the slightest, do you honestly think that alli, sterling, young, Ferdinand, welbeck, delph, rose, rashford are all 100% English? It's been going on for years so in your eyes we have already devalued the squad... might as well all give up cos we're a multicultural society and the world will end
|
|
|
Post by chislenko on Jul 12, 2018 21:16:27 GMT
Because it devalues international football to a position where it becomes like cricket and rugger. You may be happy with a win at any cost situation but it does not appeal to me. Brazilian Diego Costa playing centre forward for Spain etc, I was brought up with my nationality and nothing, money, spotlight, etc would make me change it. Don't agree with what you say in the slightest, do you honestly think that alli, sterling, young, Ferdinand, welbeck, delph, rose, rashford are all 100% English? It's been going on for years so in your eyes we have already devalued the squad... might as well all give up cos we're a multicultural society and the world will end It is nothing to do with multicultural society and you are deliberately dodging the issue. Let's say the next Drogba signs for Chelsea or Madrid at 11, after five years he is English or Spanish, thus we devalue the country he comes from, the rich get richer etc. Surely as a Chester supporter whereby the super rich Man City's etc of this world can just cherry pick our best talent with little or no compensation because we can not afford the correct Academy accreditation you can see this.
|
|
|
Post by rcb on Jul 12, 2018 21:18:48 GMT
Two posts now about world beating youth teams but none of you appear able to acknowledge that the better players in these youth teams are not actually English. Do we want football to go the way of rugger and cricket, personally I don't. Remember the FA tried to get the bloke who scored for Belgium in the group stage to be English on the residency rule, total joke of your nationality in my book. The Germans have been doing it for years... Ozil Klose Can Boateng Podolski That's just off the top of my head, plenty more If they are good enough and have/can get English citizenship then why not! No such thing! Immigrants are entitled to seek British citizenship.
|
|
|
Post by Al on Jul 12, 2018 23:42:51 GMT
Two posts now about world beating youth teams but none of you appear able to acknowledge that the better players in these youth teams are not actually English. Do we want football to go the way of rugger and cricket, personally I don't. Remember the FA tried to get the bloke who scored for Belgium in the group stage to be English on the residency rule, total joke of your nationality in my book. Most sane people don't give a flying fuck where they were born as long as they wear the shirt with pride and perform. We have world beating players in the youth sides, those lads deserve every opportunity to continue their development both internationally and at club level. If the FA and English supporters want a consistently successful side then nurturing these players is the way forward. I would dismiss the opinion of the other poster too about following what Croatia have done. We are on the right path now, we need buy in from the Premier League now to take it to the next stage
|
|
|
Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jul 13, 2018 5:44:14 GMT
Perhaps we should disband the England team entirely then seeing as the original inhabitants of Britain were the Celts. We'll all support Wales, Scotland and Ireland...
|
|
|
Post by chislenko on Jul 13, 2018 8:02:12 GMT
The Germans have been doing it for years... Ozil Klose Can Boateng Podolski That's just off the top of my head, plenty more If they are good enough and have/can get English citizenship then why not! No such thing! Immigrants are entitled to seek British citizenship. And as such play for any of the home nations.
|
|