|
Post by Oaks Blue on Jul 13, 2018 8:33:46 GMT
Don't agree with what you say in the slightest, do you honestly think that alli, sterling, young, Ferdinand, welbeck, delph, rose, rashford are all 100% English? It's been going on for years so in your eyes we have already devalued the squad... might as well all give up cos we're a multicultural society and the world will end It is nothing to do with multicultural society and you are deliberately dodging the issue. Let's say the next Drogba signs for Chelsea or Madrid at 11, after five years he is English or Spanish, thus we devalue the country he comes from, the rich get richer etc. Surely as a Chester supporter whereby the super rich Man City's etc of this world can just cherry pick our best talent with little or no compensation because we can not afford the correct Academy accreditation you can see this. You've taken this topic a fair way from where it started in such a small number of posts! Are we talking about the national team or how the big clubs are able to take advantage due to their buying power? Or should we go off on a complete tangent and talk about how much a hair cut costs in Chester versus London? Staying on topic, England should be allowed to have the flexibility that other national sides profit from, your good old British values don't exist anymore it's probably time you move on and embrace the new world we live in
|
|
|
Post by rcb on Jul 13, 2018 8:53:17 GMT
No such thing! Immigrants are entitled to seek British citizenship. And as such play for any of the home nations.
Perhaps, more logically, they become eligible to represent Britain in their chosen sport. Correctly so, and not an issue, except where they are imported in circumstances like Zola Budd all those years ago. Becoming British is straightforward. The concept of our four home nations is unique and anomalous in world sport and more difficult to determine. Ancestry is logical, but conflicts with place of birth. For example, if a Welsh couple have a child born in England the child is Welsh through ancestry, but English through birth. The Countess of Chester serves North Wales. Residency is another determining factor, but potentially conflicts with both the other two factors. Ryan Giggs has a Welsh father, was born in Wales, and first six years resident in Wales, so all three factors apply. However, mother English, and lived in England since the age of six, so two factors say he is English, yet people still argue. Personally, I feel that place of birth is the weakest of the three factors, for many simple reasons, which leaves ancestry and residency as the determining factors. People still argue. Can’t very see a British team replacing each of the home nations in football, so let the arguments rage on!
|
|
|
Post by chislenko on Jul 13, 2018 8:56:55 GMT
It is nothing to do with multicultural society and you are deliberately dodging the issue. Let's say the next Drogba signs for Chelsea or Madrid at 11, after five years he is English or Spanish, thus we devalue the country he comes from, the rich get richer etc. Surely as a Chester supporter whereby the super rich Man City's etc of this world can just cherry pick our best talent with little or no compensation because we can not afford the correct Academy accreditation you can see this. You've taken this topic a fair way from where it started in such a small number of posts! Are we talking about the national team or how the big clubs are able to take advantage due to their buying power? Or should we go off on a complete tangent and talk about how much a hair cut costs in Chester versus London? Staying on topic, England should be allowed to have the flexibility that other national sides profit from, your good old British values don't exist anymore it's probably time you move on and embrace the new world we live in Funny you should say all that I seem to remember a great many English people including the TV pundits criticising English born Welsh players at Euro 2016!!! Saying they shouldn't be playing for Wales. I suppose people pick and choose what is right or wrong when it suits them best.
|
|
|
Post by Lobster on Jul 13, 2018 9:31:59 GMT
Northern Ireland's sixth most capped player of all time is Maik Taylor, who played in goal in the All Stars match organised by Jeff Banks and Colin Murray. He was not Northern Irish at all and had no connection with the country, but as a British citizen born in Germany to a father serving in the army, he was entitled to play for any of the UK nations.
I often think that even if someone who was absolutely 100% Welsh wanted to play for England, or vice versa, there is probably little that can be done to stop it.
|
|
|
Post by rcb on Jul 13, 2018 9:52:58 GMT
Northern Ireland's sixth most capped player of all time is Maik Taylor, who played in goal in the All Stars match organised by Jeff Banks and Colin Murray. He was not Northern Irish at all and had no connection with the country, but as a British citizen born in Germany to a father serving in the army, he was entitled to play for any of the UK nations. I often think that even if someone who was absolutely 100% Welsh wanted to play for England, or vice versa, there is probably little that can be done to stop it. I agree that in the case of Maik Taylor it makes a mockery of all logic and common sense. More importantly, how many times did he prevent a legitimate Northern Irishman from representing his country? Jokes like this need sorting out. I’d go further and say that a country must be representative of that country’s talent, and that includes players, managers, and coaching staff. Glad to see an Englishman back in charge of his country rather than a mercenary Swede or Italian! Bit of a joke that a country such as Belgium, rich in football history, is led by a Spaniard in the current World Cup.
|
|
|
Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jul 13, 2018 10:09:06 GMT
The "country" has always been United Kingdom. Surely anybody born anyhwhere in the UK should be allowed to represent any of its four (at present) member states.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2018 10:41:57 GMT
Regardless of family heritage, surely if you are born in England you are 100% English? Our national side is representative of our population thankfully, as are our younger sides.
English football is in a healthier position now than for 20 years, our players are more comfortable with a ball etc. Whether our tactics are as advanced (2nd half, when Croatia pressed we resorted to hoofball...) is up for argument.
I enjoyed the ride, and loved the fact that a group of lads black, white and all colours between united our country at a time when we really needed it. I think that the best 2 teams are in the final, oh and its Linnets away tomorrow in the sun!
|
|
|
Post by Anders on Jul 13, 2018 10:58:23 GMT
You've taken this topic a fair way from where it started in such a small number of posts! Are we talking about the national team or how the big clubs are able to take advantage due to their buying power? Or should we go off on a complete tangent and talk about how much a hair cut costs in Chester versus London? Staying on topic, England should be allowed to have the flexibility that other national sides profit from, your good old British values don't exist anymore it's probably time you move on and embrace the new world we live in Funny you should say all that I seem to remember a great many English people including the TV pundits criticising English born Welsh players at Euro 2016!!! Saying they shouldn't be playing for Wales. I suppose people pick and choose what is right or wrong when it suits them best. Don't think it was that as such, more pointing out the irony of them having a hefty number of English born players despite being pretty anti-English in some quarters at the same time.
|
|
|
Post by rcb on Jul 13, 2018 11:06:02 GMT
Regardless of family heritage, surely if you are born in England you are 100% English? Our national side is representative of our population thankfully, as are our younger sides. English football is in a healthier position now than for 20 years, our players are more comfortable with a ball etc. Whether our tactics are as advanced (2nd half, when Croatia pressed we resorted to hoofball...) is up for argument. I enjoyed the ride, and loved the fact that a group of lads black, white and all colours between united our country at a time when we really needed it. I think that the best 2 teams are in the final, oh and its Linnets away tomorrow in the sun! ...so if a pregnant Jamaican women flying directly from Jamaica to Nigeria goes into labour mid-flight, which diverts to London for an emergency delivery, before two days later completing her journey, then her child is 100% English? Get real! By the way, you go on to say that the National side is representative of our population, which corresponds with residency, then you are correct. Only your first statement is bollocks.
|
|
|
Post by Bristol Blue on Jul 13, 2018 11:28:43 GMT
Northern Ireland's sixth most capped player of all time is Maik Taylor, who played in goal in the All Stars match organised by Jeff Banks and Colin Murray. He was not Northern Irish at all and had no connection with the country, but as a British citizen born in Germany to a father serving in the army, he was entitled to play for any of the UK nations. I often think that even if someone who was absolutely 100% Welsh wanted to play for England, or vice versa, there is probably little that can be done to stop it. I agree that in the case of Maik Taylor it makes a mockery of all logic and common sense. More importantly, how many times did he prevent a legitimate Northern Irishman from representing his country? Jokes like this need sorting out. I’d go further and say that a country must be representative of that country’s talent, and that includes players, managers, and coaching staff. Glad to see an Englishman back in charge of his country rather than a mercenary Swede or Italian! Bit of a joke that a country such as Belgium, rich in football history, is led by a Spaniard in the current World Cup. Our previous two managers were also English
|
|
|
Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jul 13, 2018 11:35:19 GMT
Indeed an Englishman holds the best record of any England manager - Big Sam's 100% winning record will probably never be beaten.
|
|
|
Post by Hannibal on Jul 13, 2018 11:39:24 GMT
Perhaps we should disband the England team entirely then seeing as the original inhabitants of Britain were the Celts. We'll all support Wales, Scotland and Ireland... Celts were originally a mainland European tribe, but were forced out of Europe by the tribes that eventually brought down the Western Roman Empire.
|
|
|
Post by rcb on Jul 13, 2018 11:52:05 GMT
I agree that in the case of Maik Taylor it makes a mockery of all logic and common sense. More importantly, how many times did he prevent a legitimate Northern Irishman from representing his country? Jokes like this need sorting out. I’d go further and say that a country must be representative of that country’s talent, and that includes players, managers, and coaching staff. Glad to see an Englishman back in charge of his country rather than a mercenary Swede or Italian! Bit of a joke that a country such as Belgium, rich in football history, is led by a Spaniard in the current World Cup. Our previous two managers were also English I know
|
|
|
Post by soulseal on Jul 13, 2018 12:08:20 GMT
The "country" has always been United Kingdom. Surely anybody born anyhwhere in the UK should be allowed to represent any of its four (at present) member states. Spot on Sychdyn. I have always considered myself British. I have an English born father and a Scottish born mother. I would have been honoured and happy to represent either country. (Also embarrassed as I would have been crap lol.) I would have been honoured to have been asked to play for Wales or Northern Ireland but would have politely declined I think as I have little emotional connection to these countries despite a Welsh great grandfather. Most of us are such mongrels. Also I was born in Cyprus. Perhaps could have been eligible to play for them but am not Cypriot in any meaningful way. I respect Ryan Giggs for choosing the Welsh team, as much as England would have benefitted from him. Would love to see a UK team. UK preferred over GB as this is inclusive for Northern Ireland.
|
|
|
Post by btb on Jul 13, 2018 12:34:12 GMT
This thread lost its way, quickly!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2018 12:47:57 GMT
Regardless of family heritage, surely if you are born in England you are 100% English? Our national side is representative of our population thankfully, as are our younger sides. English football is in a healthier position now than for 20 years, our players are more comfortable with a ball etc. Whether our tactics are as advanced (2nd half, when Croatia pressed we resorted to hoofball...) is up for argument. I enjoyed the ride, and loved the fact that a group of lads black, white and all colours between united our country at a time when we really needed it. I think that the best 2 teams are in the final, oh and its Linnets away tomorrow in the sun! ...so if a pregnant Jamaican women flying directly from Jamaica to Nigeria goes into labour mid-flight, which diverts to London for an emergency delivery, before two days later completing her journey, then her child is 100% English? Get real! By the way, you go on to say that the National side is representative of our population, which corresponds with residency, then you are correct. Only your first statement is bollocks. Yep. www.passports-office.co.uk/blog/british-passport-the-rules-of-eligibility/ Sorry.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2018 12:49:08 GMT
This thread lost its way, quickly! Yes. Strong whiff of gammon on Deva Chat nowadays.
|
|
|
Post by Lobster on Jul 13, 2018 12:58:54 GMT
...so if a pregnant Jamaican women flying directly from Jamaica to Nigeria goes into labour mid-flight, which diverts to London for an emergency delivery, before two days later completing her journey, then her child is 100% English? Get real! By the way, you go on to say that the National side is representative of our population, which corresponds with residency, then you are correct. Only your first statement is bollocks. Yep. www.passports-office.co.uk/blog/british-passport-the-rules-of-eligibility/ Sorry. Being a bit picky here, but I was born in England, but am also eligible for an Irish citizenship and passport. By definition, if I'm 100% English, I can't be eligible for citizenship anywhere else, can I?
|
|
|
Post by rcb on Jul 13, 2018 14:25:38 GMT
...so if a pregnant Jamaican women flying directly from Jamaica to Nigeria goes into labour mid-flight, which diverts to London for an emergency delivery, before two days later completing her journey, then her child is 100% English? Get real! By the way, you go on to say that the National side is representative of our population, which corresponds with residency, then you are correct. Only your first statement is bollocks. Yep. www.passports-office.co.uk/blog/british-passport-the-rules-of-eligibility/ Sorry. Lots of reference to “British” in your attachment, but no reference to “English”, so you remain accused of bollocks.
|
|
|
Post by Imperial on Jul 13, 2018 14:37:29 GMT
This thread lost its way, quickly! Yes. Strong whiff of gammon on Deva Chat nowadays. Maybe if you stopped spouting identity politics you wouldn’t get the feeling that people have a problem with your views. You mention that the England team is representative but that’s not the case; there are no Asians in the team & the black demographic is wildly over represented but it doesn’t matter does it? I’m white but feel as represented by Sterling & Rashford as I do by Kane & Pickford. Instead of inferring racism or xenophobia all the time, try to understand the point that people are making. Nationality is a complex issue. What makes up a persons nationality? Their legal status? What they feel? Where they live? Where they were born? It’d be different if you asked different people but the Brazilians playing for middle eastern countries after being granted nationality solely to improve the football team shows that there is an issue. Or would you argue that they are in any way the nationalities they’ve adopted?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2018 15:03:04 GMT
So much piss being boiled here over what someone calls themselves. Do you not see this is the problem? They identify as English.
The passport bit was a bit of a piss take, but is true. The child born in England would qualify for British citizenship without a second glance, and could happily call themselves 100% English if they chose. We live in a democracy (for now), and it would be their right to be so.
The Daily Heil and the Sun run daily stories playing right into your little Englander fears. I mention it a fair bit (twice maybe three times in 1000s of posts on here....) because these myths and fears being perpetuated are, in my opinion, one of the main reasons that our country is now in a shit, shit state. Unemployment up, racist attacks up, NHS plundered. The uberfuckingmess that Brexit is...
But as I said, the World Cup was great, enhanced by the multi cultural heritage of our England squad coming together for the shirt. Football as healer? It certainly helped.
|
|
|
Post by Derry Blue on Jul 13, 2018 15:16:39 GMT
So much piss being boiled here over what someone calls themselves. Do you not see this is the problem? They identify as English. The passport bit was a bit of a piss take, but is true. The child born in England would qualify for British citizenship without a second glance, and could happily call themselves 100% English if they chose. We live in a democracy (for now), and it would be their right to be so. The Daily Heil and the Sun run daily stories playing right into your little Englander fears. I mention it a fair bit (twice maybe three times in 1000s of posts on here....) because these myths and fears being perpetuated are, in my opinion, one of the main reasons that our country is now in a shit, shit state. Unemployment up, racist attacks up, NHS plundered. The uberfuckingmess that Brexit is... But as I said, the World Cup was great, enhanced by the multi cultural heritage of our England squad coming together for the shirt. Football as healer? It certainly helped. Give it a bloody rest about "the daily heil".
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2018 15:54:15 GMT
So much piss being boiled here over what someone calls themselves. Do you not see this is the problem? They identify as English. The passport bit was a bit of a piss take, but is true. The child born in England would qualify for British citizenship without a second glance, and could happily call themselves 100% English if they chose. We live in a democracy (for now), and it would be their right to be so. The Daily Heil and the Sun run daily stories playing right into your little Englander fears. I mention it a fair bit (twice maybe three times in 1000s of posts on here....) because these myths and fears being perpetuated are, in my opinion, one of the main reasons that our country is now in a shit, shit state. Unemployment up, racist attacks up, NHS plundered. The uberfuckingmess that Brexit is... But as I said, the World Cup was great, enhanced by the multi cultural heritage of our England squad coming together for the shirt. Football as healer? It certainly helped. Give it a bloody rest about "the daily heil". 😂
|
|
|
Post by chislenko on Jul 13, 2018 17:43:24 GMT
Yes. Strong whiff of gammon on Deva Chat nowadays. It’d be different if you asked different people but the Brazilians playing for middle eastern countries after being granted nationality solely to improve the football team shows that there is an issue. Or would you argue that they are in any way the nationalities they’ve adopted? At last somebody gets the point I was making, thank you sir.
|
|
|
Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jul 13, 2018 17:59:46 GMT
I see BBC online are asking people to pick their team of the tournament. I've gone with...
Lloris (Fra)
Varane (Fra) - Mina (Col) - Maguire (Eng)
Trippier (Eng) - Modric (Cro) - Pogba (Fra) - Cheryshev (Rus)
Mbappe (Fra) - Kane (Eng) - Hazard (Bel)
|
|
|
Post by Wortleyblue on Jul 13, 2018 21:05:41 GMT
I see BBC online are asking people to pick their team of the tournament. I've gone with... Lloris (Fra) Varane (Fra) - Mina (Col) - Maguire (Eng) Trippier (Eng) - Modric (Cro) - Pogba (Fra) - Cheryshev (Rus) Mbappe (Fra) - Kane (Eng) - Hazard (Bel) Thank god this thread has returned to football
|
|
|
Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jul 14, 2018 8:36:40 GMT
Yep, had enough of all the righty looney snowflake gammons.
|
|
|
Post by Lobster on Jul 14, 2018 9:40:03 GMT
Quite looking forward to this match today. A lot of people think the third place playoff is a waste of time, but I think it’s a good prelude to the final and it’s a nice way to give the losing semi-finalists a bit of a send off. It tends to be a decent game as well - in particular I remember watching Germany beat Uruguay 3-2 in 2010 in a pub in Colwyn Bay after our friendly there. It was actually one of the best games in a poor tournament that year. Plus the fastest goal in World Cup history came in the third place game in 2002.
|
|
|
Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jul 14, 2018 9:47:17 GMT
Notoriously high-scoring affairs, Lobster.
Looking forward to watching England without any stress and nail-biting.
|
|
|
Post by agl on Jul 14, 2018 10:29:02 GMT
My team-
Lloris
Trippier, Verane, Vertongen, Godin
Modric, Hazard, Pogba, Raticic, De Bruyne
Mbappe
|
|