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Post by exiled on Dec 6, 2020 11:56:16 GMT
The Millwall squad issued a twitter statement last night saying they would continue to take the knee untill early into the new year, when it will be replaced by the clubs new comprehensive Anti discrimination strategy.
Sorry struggling to add link.
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Post by Lobster on Dec 6, 2020 11:57:21 GMT
I always thought that the moment fans were allowed back in grounds that this would happen. It just seems so orchestrated a bit like synchronised swimming . Every body has their place to stand , and all kneel on unison, this to me gives the impression that the players don't all believe in it and it is something they are told to do. Don't they just stand where they would be for kick off anyway? |
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Post by bluejay on Dec 6, 2020 12:45:13 GMT
Taking a knee has lost some of it's original meaning anyway. When Kapernick took a knee originally it was during the American National Anthem and was an anti-racist and anti-STATE gesture. That's why the viewing figures for the NFL suffered as "patriotic" Americans got angry that a highly paid professional would persist in doing this and was still being highly paid. He was incredibly brave in maintaining his stand against what he saw as an inherently racist country. That racism is largely economic and needs addressing with jobs, opportunity and investment.
Now governments are off the hook for failure to provide opportunity and investment and it's just the little people who are racist.
The media's approach to this is worryingly controlling - to the point where lots of people are scared to dissent about anything in case they are branded (in this case) a racist, or a wacko conspiracy theorist. There is only one way to think now and plenty of people who will keep us in line. I think healthy debate is being shut down - you can see evidence of that in this thread.
I'll get my coat...
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Post by Lobster on Dec 6, 2020 12:58:53 GMT
Taking a knee has lost some of it's original meaning anyway. When Kapernick took a knee originally it was during the American National Anthem and was an anti-racist and anti-STATE gesture. That's why the viewing figures for the NFL suffered as "patriotic" Americans got angry that a highly paid professional would persist in doing this and was still being highly paid. He was incredibly brave in maintaining his stand against what he saw as an inherently racist country. That racism is largely economic and needs addressing with jobs, opportunity and investment. Now governments are off the hook for failure to provide opportunity and investment and it's just the little people who are racist. The media's approach to this is worryingly controlling - to the point where lots of people are scared to dissent about anything in case they are branded (in this case) a racist, or a wacko conspiracy theorist. There is only one way to think now and plenty of people who will keep us in line. I think healthy debate is being shut down - you can see evidence of that in this thread. I'll get my coat... Dion Dublin yesterday said: "They don't agree with taking the knee, which means they are racist. They don't agree with Black Lives Matter; that says they are racist to me." That is a dangerous line of thinking to me. There are black people who don't support BLM. |
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Post by Wortleyblue on Dec 6, 2020 13:13:32 GMT
Taking the knee is an accepted form supporting the BLM movement which may have now run its course the PL have moved away from it but at Millwall yesterday there is a picture of a player raising his arm in the nazi style Black Power salute whilst others took the knee maybe that has some bearing on the reaction from the crowd (No I am not condoning them) however if taking the knee is going to be done at the start of a game then all players who wish to should do it with the remaining players standing without provactive salutes
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 6, 2020 13:15:46 GMT
Taking the knee is an accepted form supporting the BLM movement which may have now run its course the PL have moved away from it but at Millwall yesterday there is a picture of a player raising his arm in the nazi style Black Power salute whilst others took the knee maybe that has some bearing on the reaction from the crowd (No I am not condoning them) however if taking the knee is going to be done at the start of a game then all players who wish to should do it with the remaining players standing without provactive salutes “Nazi style”? Think you need to read up on your history feller. At best, your comment is a very ill-judged one. |
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Post by Oaks Blue on Dec 6, 2020 13:26:30 GMT
How many times can mancot break the forum rules in the same thread without being dealt with?
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Post by Lobster on Dec 6, 2020 13:33:01 GMT
How many times can mancot break the forum rules in the same thread without being dealt with? Not sure what rules he's breaking. If he is being a little provocative with his posts, some of the responses he's getting might be giving him something to think about. It's a good debate so far I think. |
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Post by Oaks Blue on Dec 6, 2020 13:35:27 GMT
How many times can mancot break the forum rules in the same thread without being dealt with? Not sure what rules he's breaking. If he is being a little provocative with his posts, some of the responses he's getting might be giving him something to think about. It's a good debate so far I think. I suggest you review the forum guidelines in the pinned thread written by Si... |
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Post by avfo on Dec 6, 2020 13:42:58 GMT
The Millwall squad issued a twitter statement last night saying they would continue to take the knee untill early into the new year, when it will be replaced by the clubs new comprehensive Anti discrimination strategy. Sorry struggling to add link. The statement issued by the first team squad was released the day before the match took place - “As a squad we are fully supportive of the entire football family’s efforts in ridding the sport, and society generally, of all forms of discrimination. “It is our duty as players to reinforce the positive messaging and action of clubs, Community Trusts, charities and governing bodies, and we do so with great pride and knowledge that so much good work is being done up and down the country. “The gesture of ‘taking the knee’ before matches provides an opportunity for us to do exactly that and continues to allow all those playing to publicly showcase their support – on behalf of the whole squad – for the fight against discrimination. “ We wish to make clear that taking the knee, for us, is in no way representative of any agreement with political messaging or ideology. It is purely about tackling discrimination, as has been the case throughout. “We will continue to do this until the start of the New Year when a new and comprehensive anti-discrimination strategy will be announced by the club.” Some responses to the statement, again before the match was played - 'Well it won’t stop me giving them abuse tomorrow. This has now caused a massive rift between us and them. I’ve never been one to go and abuse the players , but that will change tomorrow. And if they start to dish up the shit performances they have been this season I can see it turning very ugly. They are taking the piss out of us and I think will prefer to play with no crowds after tomorrow.'
millwall-forum.vitalfootball.co.uk/threads/first-team-squad-release-statement-on-taking-the-knee-before-games.45490/ |
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Post by exiled on Dec 6, 2020 16:56:26 GMT
The Millwall squad issued a twitter statement last night saying they would continue to take the knee untill early into the new year, when it will be replaced by the clubs new comprehensive Anti discrimination strategy. Sorry struggling to add link. The statement issued by the first team squad was released the day before the match took place - “As a squad we are fully supportive of the entire football family’s efforts in ridding the sport, and society generally, of all forms of discrimination. “It is our duty as players to reinforce the positive messaging and action of clubs, Community Trusts, charities and governing bodies, and we do so with great pride and knowledge that so much good work is being done up and down the country. “The gesture of ‘taking the knee’ before matches provides an opportunity for us to do exactly that and continues to allow all those playing to publicly showcase their support – on behalf of the whole squad – for the fight against discrimination. “ We wish to make clear that taking the knee, for us, is in no way representative of any agreement with political messaging or ideology. It is purely about tackling discrimination, as has been the case throughout. “We will continue to do this until the start of the New Year when a new and comprehensive anti-discrimination strategy will be announced by the club.” Some responses to the statement, again before the match was played - 'Well it won’t stop me giving them abuse tomorrow. This has now caused a massive rift between us and them. I’ve never been one to go and abuse the players , but that will change tomorrow. And if they start to dish up the shit performances they have been this season I can see it turning very ugly. They are taking the piss out of us and I think will prefer to play with no crowds after tomorrow.'
millwall-forum.vitalfootball.co.uk/threads/first-team-squad-release-statement-on-taking-the-knee-before-games.45490/ Thanks avfo, that's the one. I didn't know that statement was issued the day befor the game. |
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Post by Lobster on Dec 6, 2020 17:05:04 GMT
The Millwall squad issued a twitter statement last night saying they would continue to take the knee untill early into the new year, when it will be replaced by the clubs new comprehensive Anti discrimination strategy. Sorry struggling to add link. The statement issued by the first team squad was released the day before the match took place - “As a squad we are fully supportive of the entire football family’s efforts in ridding the sport, and society generally, of all forms of discrimination. “It is our duty as players to reinforce the positive messaging and action of clubs, Community Trusts, charities and governing bodies, and we do so with great pride and knowledge that so much good work is being done up and down the country. “The gesture of ‘taking the knee’ before matches provides an opportunity for us to do exactly that and continues to allow all those playing to publicly showcase their support – on behalf of the whole squad – for the fight against discrimination. “ We wish to make clear that taking the knee, for us, is in no way representative of any agreement with political messaging or ideology. It is purely about tackling discrimination, as has been the case throughout. “We will continue to do this until the start of the New Year when a new and comprehensive anti-discrimination strategy will be announced by the club.” Some responses to the statement, again before the match was played - 'Well it won’t stop me giving them abuse tomorrow. This has now caused a massive rift between us and them. I’ve never been one to go and abuse the players , but that will change tomorrow. And if they start to dish up the shit performances they have been this season I can see it turning very ugly. They are taking the piss out of us and I think will prefer to play with no crowds after tomorrow.'
millwall-forum.vitalfootball.co.uk/threads/first-team-squad-release-statement-on-taking-the-knee-before-games.45490/Got to page 2 of that thread. They really do have a problem don't they? Not sure how they address that. Not surprising to see Lee Rigby brought up. That poor family, not only having to deal with unimaginable grief, but also having that grief stolen by real lowlifes spreading hatred of their own. |
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 6, 2020 17:10:59 GMT
I couldn’t click the link, sadly Lobster’s reply above is the reason why. Horrible bunch.
Anton Ferdinand spoke very well on SSN this morning, I believe his documentary is well worth a watch. No player should go through what he went through, but sadly the issue remains prevalent.
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Post by Wortleyblue on Dec 6, 2020 17:19:06 GMT
The statement issued by the first team squad was released the day before the match took place - “As a squad we are fully supportive of the entire football family’s efforts in ridding the sport, and society generally, of all forms of discrimination. “It is our duty as players to reinforce the positive messaging and action of clubs, Community Trusts, charities and governing bodies, and we do so with great pride and knowledge that so much good work is being done up and down the country. “The gesture of ‘taking the knee’ before matches provides an opportunity for us to do exactly that and continues to allow all those playing to publicly showcase their support – on behalf of the whole squad – for the fight against discrimination. “ We wish to make clear that taking the knee, for us, is in no way representative of any agreement with political messaging or ideology. It is purely about tackling discrimination, as has been the case throughout. “We will continue to do this until the start of the New Year when a new and comprehensive anti-discrimination strategy will be announced by the club.” Some responses to the statement, again before the match was played - 'Well it won’t stop me giving them abuse tomorrow. This has now caused a massive rift between us and them. I’ve never been one to go and abuse the players , but that will change tomorrow. And if they start to dish up the shit performances they have been this season I can see it turning very ugly. They are taking the piss out of us and I think will prefer to play with no crowds after tomorrow.'
millwall-forum.vitalfootball.co.uk/threads/first-team-squad-release-statement-on-taking-the-knee-before-games.45490/Got to page 2 of that thread. They really do have a problem don't they? Not sure how they address that. Not surprising to see Lee Rigby brought up. That poor family, not only having to deal with unimaginable grief, but also having that grief stolen by real lowlifes spreading hatred of their own. That thread is appalling I don't know what their admin is doing 99% of the replies should have been removed |
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Post by lincolnexile on Dec 6, 2020 17:29:00 GMT
Got to page 2 of that thread. They really do have a problem don't they? Not sure how they address that. Not surprising to see Lee Rigby brought up. That poor family, not only having to deal with unimaginable grief, but also having that grief stolen by real lowlifes spreading hatred of their own. That thread is appalling I don't know what their admin is doing 99% of the replies should have been removed That message board should be shut down looking at the majority of posts on there. |
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 6, 2020 17:40:23 GMT
Got to page 2 of that thread. They really do have a problem don't they? Not sure how they address that. Not surprising to see Lee Rigby brought up. That poor family, not only having to deal with unimaginable grief, but also having that grief stolen by real lowlifes spreading hatred of their own. That thread is appalling I don't know what their admin is doing 99% of the replies should have been removed To be fair there’s a moderator on here who has posted that the far right aren’t far right enough. |
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Post by Wortleyblue on Dec 6, 2020 18:06:07 GMT
That thread is appalling I don't know what their admin is doing 99% of the replies should have been removed To be fair there’s a moderator on here who has posted that the far right aren’t far right enough. Link? |
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Post by waggoner on Dec 6, 2020 19:34:53 GMT
Banning orders for what exactly ? Booing something you don’t agree with - is this really the road we are going down because it’s a dangerous one if we are. Yeah, I think booing the gesture is pretty poor but I don't think it should be seen as "racist" to oppose the movement. I'm kind of torn on BLM. It has made me reflect on myself, things I've said and done that could be seen as racist. At the same time, I worry the movement is being widely misunderstood and is a little too politicised and confrontational to be progressive. I'm also not entirely sure what its end goal is or how it measures its success. In any case, to shut up for a couple of seconds in respect for an anti-racism gesture is not a lot to ask. I think it is disgusting to boo taking a knee. However, sadly I don't think Millwall and West Ham fans booing will be isolated incidents either. Once fans are back in grounds it will be a regular thing around the grounds. Taking the knee though well meaning will cause nothing but trouble. I hate to say it, but taking a knee can be (by some) taken as a political statement. Maybe plenty of players also feel like it is political and only take a knee because they would be accused of racism if they refused too.? Every football club has it's idiot minority (including ours) and maybe other things should be done to highlight racism instead of taking a knee because though well meaning, others will hijack it as an excuse to voice their opinion during it |
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Post by Ian H Block on Dec 6, 2020 20:30:38 GMT
Yeah, I think booing the gesture is pretty poor but I don't think it should be seen as "racist" to oppose the movement. I'm kind of torn on BLM. It has made me reflect on myself, things I've said and done that could be seen as racist. At the same time, I worry the movement is being widely misunderstood and is a little too politicised and confrontational to be progressive. I'm also not entirely sure what its end goal is or how it measures its success. In any case, to shut up for a couple of seconds in respect for an anti-racism gesture is not a lot to ask. I think it is disgusting to boo taking a knee. However, sadly I don't think Millwall and West Ham fans booing will be isolated incidents either. Once fans are back in grounds it will be a regular thing around the grounds. Taking the knee though well meaning will cause nothing but trouble. I hate to say it, but taking a knee can be (by some) taken as a political statement. Maybe plenty of players also feel like it is political and only take a knee because they would be accused of racism if they refused too.? Every football club has it's idiot minority (including ours) and maybe other things should be done to highlight racism instead of taking a knee because though well meaning, others will hijack it as an excuse to voice their opinion during it I see Liverpool fans applauded the players taking the knee tonight. |
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Post by eportblue on Dec 6, 2020 20:34:25 GMT
I’ve been to hundreds of Chester games over the years and I’ve only heard a racist comment once towards a black player, it was that unusual that every body that was in the area of the Harry Mac stand almost gave them selfs whiplash to see who had made the comment the individual was removed and as far as I’m aware ejected from the stadium, I’m sure it has happened on other occasions but it shows it’s pretty rare in Chester, of course I could be corrected and it’s a lot worse than I think. I maybe naive but I’ve very rarely witnessed racism at all in the UK but I guess it depends on where you live and the make up of your community, I was in the Army for 25 years so again we lived in our own Army community we had lots of Fijians, Gurkhas and other guys from the commonweath the only people we didn’t like was civilians (sorry everyone) again I don’t really remember anything going on in terms of racism we all respected each other, I guess down to the fact we had all completed the same training.
I do however know hundreds of people from my time in the Army who live all over the UK and this is mainly from seeing posts on Facebook etc by some of them that racism is all over the country and depending on where you come from I think it is just as bad towards white people in many of these places.
Once again I acknowledge the fact I maybe naive but I think this BLM movement has made it worse. I’ve never heard so much about racism I had never heard it discussed before and it seem to be mostly white people trying to score points against each other. Abuse against Welsh people, ginger people gypsy people, polish people etc all white incidentally, I could go on its massively widespread and it would appear that over the years perfectly acceptable even in our stadium.
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Post by Lobster on Dec 6, 2020 21:29:55 GMT
I’ve been to hundreds of Chester games over the years and I’ve only heard a racist comment once towards a black player, it was that unusual that every body that was in the area of the Harry Mac stand almost gave them selfs whiplash to see who had made the comment the individual was removed and as far as I’m aware ejected from the stadium, I’m sure it has happened on other occasions but it shows it’s pretty rare in Chester, of course I could be corrected and it’s a lot worse than I think. I maybe naive but I’ve very rarely witnessed racism at all in the UK but I guess it depends on where you live and the make up of your community, I was in the Army for 25 years so again we lived in our own Army community we had lots of Fijians, Gurkhas and other guys from the commonweath the only people we didn’t like was civilians (sorry everyone) again I don’t really remember anything going on in terms of racism we all respected each other, I guess down to the fact we had all completed the same training. I do however know hundreds of people from my time in the Army who live all over the UK and this is mainly from seeing posts on Facebook etc by some of them that racism is all over the country and depending on where you come from I think it is just as bad towards white people in many of these places. Once again I acknowledge the fact I maybe naive but I think this BLM movement has made it worse. I’ve never heard so much about racism I had never heard it discussed before and it seem to be mostly white people trying to score points against each other. Abuse against Welsh people, ginger people gypsy people, polish people etc all white incidentally, I could go on its massively widespread and it would appear that over the years perfectly acceptable even in our stadium. Racial equality shouldn't just mean not using racist abuse though. BLM activists might argue that the police are guilty of racial discrimination, that the media reports on black fatalities differently, that more black people live in poverty and they don't live as long, that we've elected a prime minister who is known to have used racist language, and that only a few weeks ago a life peer referred to Kamala Harris as "the Indian" and doesn't understand why this is wrong. But I share your concerns about whether the campaign is working. We can say it's highlighting racists, but what use is that? We don't want to just identify racists and call them racists, we want to educate and change them. Is BLM achieving that? |
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Post by eportblue on Dec 6, 2020 21:44:23 GMT
I’ve been to hundreds of Chester games over the years and I’ve only heard a racist comment once towards a black player, it was that unusual that every body that was in the area of the Harry Mac stand almost gave them selfs whiplash to see who had made the comment the individual was removed and as far as I’m aware ejected from the stadium, I’m sure it has happened on other occasions but it shows it’s pretty rare in Chester, of course I could be corrected and it’s a lot worse than I think. I maybe naive but I’ve very rarely witnessed racism at all in the UK but I guess it depends on where you live and the make up of your community, I was in the Army for 25 years so again we lived in our own Army community we had lots of Fijians, Gurkhas and other guys from the commonweath the only people we didn’t like was civilians (sorry everyone) again I don’t really remember anything going on in terms of racism we all respected each other, I guess down to the fact we had all completed the same training. I do however know hundreds of people from my time in the Army who live all over the UK and this is mainly from seeing posts on Facebook etc by some of them that racism is all over the country and depending on where you come from I think it is just as bad towards white people in many of these places. Once again I acknowledge the fact I maybe naive but I think this BLM movement has made it worse. I’ve never heard so much about racism I had never heard it discussed before and it seem to be mostly white people trying to score points against each other. Abuse against Welsh people, ginger people gypsy people, polish people etc all white incidentally, I could go on its massively widespread and it would appear that over the years perfectly acceptable even in our stadium. Racial equality shouldn't just mean not using racist abuse though. BLM activists might argue that the police are guilty of racial discrimination, that the media reports on black fatalities differently, that more black people live in poverty and they don't live as long, that we've elected a prime minister who is known to have used racist language, and that only a few weeks ago a life peer referred to Kamala Harris as "the Indian" and doesn't understand why this is wrong. But I share your concerns about whether the campaign is working. We can say it's highlighting racists, but what use is that? We don't want to just identify racists and call them racists, we want to educate and change them. Is BLM achieving that? I think I like living in my own little bubble and I very rarely get offended about anything I can usually see both sides of every argument/debate I suppose I’m a fence sitter every thing topic now seems to be two sets of people with polar opposite views just arguing for the sake of arguing. |
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Post by rcb on Dec 6, 2020 21:54:27 GMT
I’ve been to hundreds of Chester games over the years and I’ve only heard a racist comment once towards a black player, it was that unusual that every body that was in the area of the Harry Mac stand almost gave them selfs whiplash to see who had made the comment the individual was removed and as far as I’m aware ejected from the stadium, I’m sure it has happened on other occasions but it shows it’s pretty rare in Chester, of course I could be corrected and it’s a lot worse than I think. I maybe naive but I’ve very rarely witnessed racism at all in the UK but I guess it depends on where you live and the make up of your community, I was in the Army for 25 years so again we lived in our own Army community we had lots of Fijians, Gurkhas and other guys from the commonweath the only people we didn’t like was civilians (sorry everyone) again I don’t really remember anything going on in terms of racism we all respected each other, I guess down to the fact we had all completed the same training. I do however know hundreds of people from my time in the Army who live all over the UK and this is mainly from seeing posts on Facebook etc by some of them that racism is all over the country and depending on where you come from I think it is just as bad towards white people in many of these places. Once again I acknowledge the fact I maybe naive but I think this BLM movement has made it worse. I’ve never heard so much about racism I had never heard it discussed before and it seem to be mostly white people trying to score points against each other. Abuse against Welsh people, ginger people gypsy people, polish people etc all white incidentally, I could go on its massively widespread and it would appear that over the years perfectly acceptable even in our stadium. Racial equality shouldn't just mean not using racist abuse though. BLM activists might argue that the police are guilty of racial discrimination, that the media reports on black fatalities differently, that more black people live in poverty and they don't live as long, that we've elected a prime minister who is known to have used racist language, and that only a few weeks ago a life peer referred to Kamala Harris as "the Indian" and doesn't understand why this is wrong. But I share your concerns about whether the campaign is working. We can say it's highlighting racists, but what use is that? We don't want to just identify racists and call them racists, we want to educate and change them. Is BLM achieving that? Is that the Kamala Harris who has a mother from India, and is correctly proud of her? Not every reference to a country other than Britain or the USA is automatically racist. |
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Post by Lobster on Dec 6, 2020 22:01:33 GMT
Racial equality shouldn't just mean not using racist abuse though. BLM activists might argue that the police are guilty of racial discrimination, that the media reports on black fatalities differently, that more black people live in poverty and they don't live as long, that we've elected a prime minister who is known to have used racist language, and that only a few weeks ago a life peer referred to Kamala Harris as "the Indian" and doesn't understand why this is wrong. But I share your concerns about whether the campaign is working. We can say it's highlighting racists, but what use is that? We don't want to just identify racists and call them racists, we want to educate and change them. Is BLM achieving that? Is that the Kamala Harris who has a mother from India, and is correctly proud of her? Not every reference to a country other than Britain or the USA is automatically racist. To call someone "the Indian" rather than take the time to learn and use their name is, to say the least, highly disrespectful. |
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Post by Firestick Frank on Dec 6, 2020 22:04:24 GMT
Is that the Kamala Harris who has a mother from India, and is correctly proud of her? Not every reference to a country other than Britain or the USA is automatically racist. To call someone "the Indian" rather than take the time to learn and use their name is, to say the least, highly disrespectful. Plus, she’s American. Born in California. |
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Post by rcb on Dec 6, 2020 22:07:16 GMT
Is that the Kamala Harris who has a mother from India, and is correctly proud of her? Not every reference to a country other than Britain or the USA is automatically racist. To call someone "the Indian" rather than take the time to learn and use their name is, to say the least, highly disrespectful. Does that philosophy extend to calling someone from Scotland a Scot, or Jock, from Wales a Taffy, or Ireland a Paddy. How about an Aussie? I appreciate it is, or should be, the intention that matters. |
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Post by Ian H Block on Dec 6, 2020 22:12:00 GMT
To call someone "the Indian" rather than take the time to learn and use their name is, to say the least, highly disrespectful. Does that philosophy extend to calling someone from Scotland a Scot, or Jock, from Wales a Taffy, or Ireland a Paddy. How about an Aussie? I appreciate it is, or should be, the intention that matters. She’s not from India, or didn’t you realise? |
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Post by rcb on Dec 6, 2020 22:15:28 GMT
Does that philosophy extend to calling someone from Scotland a Scot, or Jock, from Wales a Taffy, or Ireland a Paddy. How about an Aussie? I appreciate it is, or should be, the intention that matters. She’s not from India, or didn’t you realise? Many players who have represented England were not from England, or didn’t you realise? |
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Post by Ian H Block on Dec 6, 2020 22:19:20 GMT
She’s not from India, or didn’t you realise? Many players who have represented England were not from England, or didn’t you realise? To become Vice-President of the USA one needs to be a natural born American citizen, or didn’t you realise? |
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Post by Oaks Blue on Dec 6, 2020 22:27:18 GMT
How is this thread still not moved to off topic or better yet deleted or locked?
Mods are even encouraging some of this political debate which has nothing to do with our club!
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