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Post by Matt on Jun 19, 2021 9:08:11 GMT
The players are there to win but Southgate continues to pick his favourites. 2 defensive midfielders at home to the worst team in the tournament. Embarrassing.
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jun 19, 2021 9:22:12 GMT
The players are there to win but Southgate continues to pick his favourites. 2 defensive midfielders at home to the worst team in the tournament. Embarrassing. Scotland are no way the worst team in the tournament, and would you have dropped Phillips after his performance on Sunday?
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Post by Matt on Jun 19, 2021 9:29:07 GMT
The players are there to win but Southgate continues to pick his favourites. 2 defensive midfielders at home to the worst team in the tournament. Embarrassing. Scotland are no way the worst team in the tournament, and would you have dropped Phillips after his performance on Sunday? I would have dropped Rice, he shouldn't have even been picked for England. Shaw and Sterling should also be dropped. If England set up to win, they'll win, simple as that but there's such a negative mentality they set up not to lose in major tournaments. That's why we also hammer teams in the qualifiers.
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Post by waggoner on Jun 19, 2021 9:32:23 GMT
The players are there to win but Southgate continues to pick his favourites. 2 defensive midfielders at home to the worst team in the tournament. Embarrassing. There are players who baffle me how they deserve the shirt. Kane looks a shadow of the player we know, he's a yard off the pace is he carrying an injury and keeping it quiet? Sterling. In a City shirt he is a very different player to the one wearing an England shirt. Time and time again he tries to run past people only to run into a brick wall and lose the ball It's not just last night either he seems to do it every game he plays for England. Foden looks great...for the first 15 minutes of a game then just vanishes. And RICE? ? No 'old heads' on the pitch to help it read somewhere that the average age of the team last night was 25 maybe that never helped?
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jun 19, 2021 9:34:30 GMT
Average age was the youngest ever for an England game at a tournament.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2021 10:04:06 GMT
I actually didn't see the game last night but it seems, from the reports and comments on here, that I didn't miss much! Yet again, huge hype but England, once again, fail to deliver - you would think we're all used to it by now.
Maybe, just maybe, we're not as good as we think we are or the hype would lead us to believe
Quite like Souness' comment: "Football's not coming home with this team"
My money's on Belgium but after the first few games the Italians look scary.
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Post by Lobster on Jun 19, 2021 11:49:21 GMT
I actually didn't see the game last night but it seems, from the reports and comments on here, that I didn't miss much! Yet again, huge hype but England, once again, fail to deliver - you would think we're all used to it by now. Maybe, just maybe, we're not as good as we think we are or the hype would lead us to believe Quite like Souness' comment: "Football's not coming home with this team" My money's on Belgium but after the first few games the Italians look scary. It rarely gets remembered that aside from Euro 96, England have had very little success in this competition over the years. They've never won a knockout game in the Euros away from home soil - something Wales managed twice in Euro 2016. That said, I think expectations are generally about right for England right now. I've not heard many people suggest they can win it, but I think after a World Cup semi-final and with some exciting young players playing for top clubs, fans are entitled to expect better than last night. England fans could help by making a better atmosphere though. All I heard from them last night was lazy jeering every time Scotland got the ball. OK, the Scots drowned them out but it was the same against Croatia. Contrast it with the dins created by the Italians, Dutch and Hungarians and home advantage is not what it could be.
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Jun 19, 2021 12:02:00 GMT
I actually didn't see the game last night but it seems, from the reports and comments on here, that I didn't miss much! Yet again, huge hype but England, once again, fail to deliver - you would think we're all used to it by now. Maybe, just maybe, we're not as good as we think we are or the hype would lead us to believe Quite like Souness' comment: "Football's not coming home with this team" My money's on Belgium but after the first few games the Italians look scary. England fans could help by making a better atmosphere though. All I heard from them last night was lazy jeering every time Scotland got the ball. OK, the Scots drowned them out but it was the same against Croatia. Contrast it with the dins created by the Italians, Dutch and Hungarians and home advantage is not what it could be. Not sure how far I agree with this. When it comes to England and their fans, some seem to idealise other supporters and be overly downbeat about our own. You call it 'lazy jeering' but if the same happened with Scot fans against us at Hampden Park you'd probably laud how passionate they were! As for atmosphere, it's hard to get things going when your team puts in a performance as uninspiring as that. We've had several similar conversations about generating an atmosphere at the Deva on here over the years (different scale of course!).
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Post by Lobster on Jun 19, 2021 12:58:09 GMT
England fans could help by making a better atmosphere though. All I heard from them last night was lazy jeering every time Scotland got the ball. OK, the Scots drowned them out but it was the same against Croatia. Contrast it with the dins created by the Italians, Dutch and Hungarians and home advantage is not what it could be. Not sure how far I agree with this. When it comes to England and their fans, some seem to idealise other supporters and be overly downbeat about our own. You call it 'lazy jeering' but if the same happened with Scot fans against us at Hampden Park you'd probably laud how passionate they were! As for atmosphere, it's hard to get things going when your team puts in a performance as uninspiring as that. We've had several similar conversations about generating an atmosphere at the Deva on here over the years (different scale of course!). True, it works both ways. I just don't hear much apart from cheering and booing myself, and little in the way of actual chants. It seemed a lot better three years ago. Maybe it's Wembley, where England games always seem a bit flat to me.
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jun 19, 2021 13:05:44 GMT
Same applies at club level in this country - there has always been a major difference between home support and away support in all leagues.
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Post by vandycandy on Jun 19, 2021 13:29:48 GMT
Well that England game was a turgid affair. Scotland celebrating the draw like they won the game says it all. Luckily for England Scotland's forwards are no better than Lithuania's.
It all comes from Southgate's mindset which is to not lose and always keep a clean sheet. Such a negative & unadventurous manner to play football. With all that attacking talent, you need to use it correctly. For starters change the formation we have 2 holding midfielders doing the same job, Rice or Philips should be dropped for me it would be Philips. Secondly get Sterling out of that side he is absolute garbage, he got the goal against Croatia but what does he offer in all seriousness on a regular basis for England! Can't understand why Grealish only got half an hour, he didn't set the world on fire when he came on but he tried to hold the ball up & run at their defence. As for Sancho what has the lad got to do to get on the pitch?? 16 goals & a similar number of assists last season for Dortmund. I have no faith in Southgate to improve the performance because he is to obdurate in his playing style.
Pickford Trippier/Stones/Mings/Shaw Rice Foden Grealish Sancho Rashford Kane
That team & formation will score goals. Instead Southgate always wants 10 players behind the ball. He won't make the required changes & England won't get anywhere, shame when they have some of the best attacking talent in the tournament.
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Post by cameandabel on Jun 19, 2021 14:02:03 GMT
England could now make themselves highly unpopular by playing out a draw with the Czechs that would see both sides through, with England in second place and likely an easier tie in the next round. Should England play out a lifeless draw on Tuesday (at the same venue where they beat the Czechs 5-0 in qualifying) then suspect the criticism coming their way will be even more intense than it was last night. While the next round tie would look easier on paper if we finished second in our group, I think that we would have to travel overseas for it and the quarter-final tie to follow it would most likely be against the winner of the France/Portugal group - so not really that much more beneficial. Think a positive performance and result is what is needed on Tuesday, rather than plotting an easier-looking last 16 tie by drawing again.
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jun 19, 2021 14:05:55 GMT
France thinking they can just rock up, go through the motions and win this game.
Hoping they can turn it around, dislike Hungary massively.
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Post by vandycandy on Jun 19, 2021 14:17:24 GMT
France thinking they can just rock up, go through the motions and win this game. Hoping they can turn it around, dislike Hungary massively. Interesting. Did you once have a bad experience with a pot of goulash?
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jun 19, 2021 14:46:34 GMT
France thinking they can just rock up, go through the motions and win this game. Hoping they can turn it around, dislike Hungary massively. Interesting. Did you once have a bad experience with a pot of goulash? Nah they’re just backwards, racist people with a Nazi running the country.
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Post by Lobster on Jun 19, 2021 14:59:40 GMT
Interesting. Did you once have a bad experience with a pot of goulash? Nah they’re just backwards, racist people with a Nazi running the country. That's a bit of a generalisation of Hungarians. Don't judge people by their government. Personally I really like Hungary as a footballing nation. A great team at the wrong time, but one that had a huge impact on the game.
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Post by arthuro on Jun 19, 2021 15:13:33 GMT
And yet another thread descends into a farce because of Deva Chats version of Brent and Keenan.
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jun 19, 2021 15:21:03 GMT
Nah they’re just backwards, racist people with a Nazi running the country. That's a bit of a generalisation of Hungarians. Don't judge people by their government. Personally I really like Hungary as a footballing nation. A great team at the wrong time, but one that had a huge impact on the game. Yeah fair enough, it was a generalisation but then their fans overwhelmingly booed a taking of the knee in a warmup game prior to the tournament and their PM accused the opposition of deliberately antagonising their fans. How can an anti-racism gesture antagonise people if those people aren’t racists? Says it all. Remember the majority of us on here saying the same sort of things about Bulgaria fans after England suffered racist abuse there in the qualifiers. As for the poster above, I was asked why I don’t like Hungary so I answered the question - if you want to descend the thread into a farce that’s up to you.
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Post by Lobster on Jun 19, 2021 15:49:37 GMT
I almost worry that France have too many world class players and don't have a team. They remind me of what Real Madrid used to be like in the '00s - massive names but won very little. I don't think they'll win the tournament.
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Post by Wortleyblue on Jun 19, 2021 17:25:35 GMT
And right on cue the Germans hit form
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jun 19, 2021 17:33:23 GMT
Solid tournament team, Germany, you should never write them off. I wouldn’t be surprised if they win the group to be honest.
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Post by Wortleyblue on Jun 19, 2021 18:14:21 GMT
Solid tournament team, Germany, you should never write them off. I wouldn’t be surprised if they win the group to be honest. Absolutely they must be favourites to beat Hungary and as for France v Portugal who knows after todays performances. 2nd place in that group will play England or Czech Republic
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Post by bing on Jun 19, 2021 20:08:16 GMT
Can anyone explain why they predetermine the route teams take if they win or come second in the group? Seems farcical that people are saying we'd be best coming second. To incentivise teams to keep pressing hard, wouldn't it be best if they had a live draw after each round?
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jun 19, 2021 20:58:17 GMT
Current last 16 ties after the end of the second round of group matches:
Belgium v Portugal Italy v Ukraine France v Finland England v Slovakia Sweden v Austria Czech Rep v Germany Netherlands v Spain Wales v Russia
Portugal, Austria, Finland and Spain are the four third-placed teams through as it stands (Croatia and Switzerland are the two missing out). Of course all can change by midweek.
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Post by Lobster on Jun 19, 2021 21:20:36 GMT
Spain seem to be persevering with a style of football they simply don't have the players to play any more. Really it hasn't worked for them since Euro 2012 and it's as bad to watch as aimless hoofball.
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jun 19, 2021 21:59:54 GMT
I almost worry that France have too many world class players and don't have a team. They remind me of what Real Madrid used to be like in the '00s - massive names but won very little. I don't think they'll win the tournament. They’re the current World Cup holders and won both major international tournaments in a row only 20 years ago. That’s plentiful for a national side - look at England, nothing since 1966! Take your point about big individual stars though - France’s downfall, if any, will be themselves and their famous in-fighting.
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Post by midfieldgeneral on Jun 20, 2021 8:02:17 GMT
The Germany v Portugal performance was everything that England"s wasn't. They attacked with pace and penetration, switched play effectively, got to the byline and were clinical, in front of goal Compare that to England who played with 2 holding midfield players and attacked at a snails pace If they play like that they wont get much further than the next round and would seriously struggle against France, Holland, Italy, Belgium and Germany. (Unless the raise their game considerably). If it were me I would be looking to inject more pace and creativity into it Replace Sterling,Kane, Rice etc, with Rashford, Calvin Lewin, Grealish and Sancho, Friday Nights performance was dire.
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Post by Lobster on Jun 20, 2021 8:23:43 GMT
I almost worry that France have too many world class players and don't have a team. They remind me of what Real Madrid used to be like in the '00s - massive names but won very little. I don't think they'll win the tournament. They’re the current World Cup holders and won both major international tournaments in a row only 20 years ago. That’s plentiful for a national side - look at England, nothing since 1966! Take your point about big individual stars though - France’s downfall, if any, will be themselves and their famous in-fighting. I meant this particular French team, although admittedly it's not that different to the one that won the World Cup three years ago. No Umtiti though, who was great in that tournament.
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Post by Wortleyblue on Jun 20, 2021 9:32:17 GMT
So onto Tuesday due to the predetermined route do we really want to win this one only to have to face Germany France or Portugal in the round of 16. I know we will have to face at least one them at some time but is it better sooner or later.
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Post by Lobster on Jun 20, 2021 11:20:27 GMT
Finishing second may work out better, it did in the last World Cup, but I think you've always got to try and win the group if you're serious about winning the tournament. At least then you won't go out thinking you could have done more. The 2002 World Cup is the one that stands out, where a poor 0-0 draw against Nigeria meant England finished second and went out to Brazil in the quarters. Winning the group could have meant a path to the semis via Senegal and Turkey.
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