|
Post by Matt on Jul 12, 2021 10:47:41 GMT
Italy were the better team and have been the best in the tournament, they could have easily won that game in the 2nd half but it's been a fantastic summer and the players have done the country proud. After that Scotland game I didn't think we'd get close to that but we improved as the tournament progressed which looks very promising for the future, given how young the squad is.
|
|
|
Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jul 12, 2021 11:12:38 GMT
Disappointed at the result, but proud of the team. Inexperience probably the telling difference. It has been great to look forward to each England game with optimism rather than the usual dread. Well done boys you did us proud, and well done Italy the best team in the tournament. 👏👏👏👏
|
|
|
Post by Lobster on Jul 12, 2021 11:20:09 GMT
Penalty shootouts are high-pressure situations as it is, so bringing on players whose only contribution is to take a penalty increases that pressure on them. Rashford and Sancho must find it hard not to feel like they only had one job and they failed. Those two came on so late they almost didn't get on at all, and I'm guessing that's because it left the team lopsided and Southgate didn't want to have Rashford at right back any longer than he had to, but I'm not sure it was necessary. There were plenty of good penalty takers on the pitch - Harry Maguire took the best penalty of the night and he's not one I would've fancied. A rare misjudgement from Southgate in this tournament.
The approach to the second half could have been better, but I would say the problem was not so much poor tactics as poor performance. We just didn't play well in that half, looked sloppy and Kane went missing as he sometimes does, leaving us with no outlet. The goal we conceded was just poor, and not really anything to do with being overly defensive.
|
|
|
Post by midfieldgeneral on Jul 12, 2021 11:23:35 GMT
I said weeks ago that being hard to beat, will only get you so far. You need creativity to win it.
|
|
|
Post by cityboy5705 on Jul 12, 2021 11:40:58 GMT
Also what hasn't been noted is the first decent team we play we always lose to Germany some say but they are a shadow of there Glory days Denmark ok have good players but there one world class is in hospital let's be fair we beat no one Italy beat Belgium and Spain better teams than England beat enjoyed the ride though
|
|
|
Post by agl on Jul 13, 2021 17:09:25 GMT
I said weeks ago that being hard to beat, will only get you so far. You need creativity to win it. Yeah only as far as a final for the first time since 1966. Fine margins...if we'd hung on for an ugly 1-0 or could take penalties Southgate would be lauded as a genius. After the shambles at previous tournaments I see this as definite progress. The system he uses does allow creative players to flourish but relies on the wing backs getting forwards. Arguably the early goal led to a negative mindset.
|
|
|
Post by midfieldgeneral on Jul 13, 2021 23:58:12 GMT
I said weeks ago that being hard to beat, will only get you so far. You need creativity to win it. Yeah only as far as a final for the first time since 1966. Fine margins...if we'd hung on for an ugly 1-0 or could take penalties Southgate would be lauded as a genius. After the shambles at previous tournaments I see this as definite progress. The system he uses does allow creative players to flourish but relies on the wing backs getting forwards. Arguably the early goal led to a negative mindset. Fine margins? They didnt cross the half way line, in the second half and were playing a flat back 5. 1 shot at goal and all the creative players , on the bench. The 2 Italian centre backs that are older, than my granny , were camped in the centre circle. It was not unlucky, Tactically, it was dire. England should have defended 20 yards up the pitch had Grealish on from the start and tried to get constant pressure on the aging centre of the Italian defence. Getting a 1 goal lead and trying to defend it for 88 minutes , is not progress.
|
|
|
Post by Moltisanti on Jul 14, 2021 6:14:33 GMT
Yeah only as far as a final for the first time since 1966. Fine margins...if we'd hung on for an ugly 1-0 or could take penalties Southgate would be lauded as a genius. After the shambles at previous tournaments I see this as definite progress. The system he uses does allow creative players to flourish but relies on the wing backs getting forwards. Arguably the early goal led to a negative mindset. Fine margins? They didnt cross the half way line, in the second half and were playing a flat back 5. 1 shot at goal and all the creative players , on the bench. The 2 Italian centre backs that are older, than my granny , were camped in the centre circle. It was not unlucky, Tactically, it was dire. England should have defended 20 yards up the pitch had Grealish on from the start and tried to get constant pressure on the aging centre of the Italian defence. Getting a 1 goal lead and trying to defend it for 88 minutes , is not progress. Least you got what you wanted
|
|
|
Post by midfieldgeneral on Jul 14, 2021 7:18:05 GMT
Fine margins? They didnt cross the half way line, in the second half and were playing a flat back 5. 1 shot at goal and all the creative players , on the bench. The 2 Italian centre backs that are older, than my granny , were camped in the centre circle. It was not unlucky, Tactically, it was dire. England should have defended 20 yards up the pitch had Grealish on from the start and tried to get constant pressure on the aging centre of the Italian defence. Getting a 1 goal lead and trying to defend it for 88 minutes , is not progress. Least you got what you wanted No, just sick of the Glorious defeat mantra. They get beat for a reason.
|
|
|
Post by agl on Jul 14, 2021 8:03:07 GMT
Least you got what you wanted No, just sick of the Glorious defeat mantra. They get beat for a reason. I spent the tournament surrounded by occasional football fans shouting 'get Grealish on'. Southgate chose a formation which he stuck with and got to the final. England came up against a good team. I agree we were too passive after the goal and effectively played a back five. The superb move for that goal showed how the system was meant to work and Italy looked very shaky for the first time in the tournament. I'm sure when Southgate reflects he will recognise that we lost our way in the second half and he should have either made earlier changes or got the wing backs to try to play higher. Anyone who thinks we can just throw on the likes of Grealish, Foden etc and sacrifice the solidity at the back and beat the top teams is living in Dreamland. Grealish is a great player but the hype around him is embarrassing. Likewise your 'assessment' of Chielini and Bonucci. Assume you have the same opinion of Livesey and Grand 😉
|
|
|
Post by midfieldgeneral on Jul 14, 2021 9:19:29 GMT
No, just sick of the Glorious defeat mantra. They get beat for a reason. I spent the tournament surrounded by occasional football fans shouting 'get Grealish on'. Southgate chose a formation which he stuck with and got to the final. England came up against a good team. I agree we were too passive after the goal and effectively played a back five. The superb move for that goal showed how the system was meant to work and Italy looked very shaky for the first time in the tournament. I'm sure when Southgate reflects he will recognise that we lost our way in the second half and he should have either made earlier changes or got the wing backs to try to play higher. Anyone who thinks we can just throw on the likes of Grealish, Foden etc and sacrifice the solidity at the back and beat the top teams is living in Dreamland. Grealish is a great player but the hype around him is embarrassing. Likewise your 'assessment' of Chielini and Bonucci. Assume you have the same opinion of Livesey and Grand 😉 Getting Grealish on earlier. Defending 20 yards further forward and getting constant pace, against the 2 ItLian defenders would have forced them to not hold a high line. Grealish is the most creative player we have and should start ahead of Foden and Mount. Kane and Sterling should have come off for Rashford and Calvin Lewin
|
|
|
Post by agl on Jul 14, 2021 11:06:17 GMT
I spent the tournament surrounded by occasional football fans shouting 'get Grealish on'. Southgate chose a formation which he stuck with and got to the final. England came up against a good team. I agree we were too passive after the goal and effectively played a back five. The superb move for that goal showed how the system was meant to work and Italy looked very shaky for the first time in the tournament. I'm sure when Southgate reflects he will recognise that we lost our way in the second half and he should have either made earlier changes or got the wing backs to try to play higher. Anyone who thinks we can just throw on the likes of Grealish, Foden etc and sacrifice the solidity at the back and beat the top teams is living in Dreamland. Grealish is a great player but the hype around him is embarrassing. Likewise your 'assessment' of Chielini and Bonucci. Assume you have the same opinion of Livesey and Grand 😉 Getting Grealish on earlier. Defending 20 yards further forward and getting constant pace, against the 2 ItLian defenders would have forced them to not hold a high line. Grealish is the most creative player we have and should start ahead of Foden and Mount. Kane and Sterling should have come off for Rashford and Calvin Lewin Surely only a matter of time before the FA give you the call MG!
|
|
|
Post by midfieldgeneral on Jul 14, 2021 11:41:11 GMT
Getting Grealish on earlier. Defending 20 yards further forward and getting constant pace, against the 2 ItLian defenders would have forced them to not hold a high line. Grealish is the most creative player we have and should start ahead of Foden and Mount. Kane and Sterling should have come off for Rashford and Calvin Lewin Surely only a matter of time before the FA give you the call MG! I know. I m waiting by the phone. Lol
|
|
|
Post by The Angry Agenda on Jul 14, 2021 12:06:54 GMT
Watching England in this tournament reminded me at times of watching Chester under Mark Wright. The tactics could be dull and painful to watch but it got the results required. For the FA all that mattered was results and progress, and the fact England were probably one of the worst sides to watch as far as entertainment value goes, wouldn’t have mattered to them as the side reached the final. The main problem with defensive managers Is they get less time when results don’t go their way with the public as they become disillusioned far quicker than with a manager who plays football that’s easy on the eye. Southgates style of play got England to its first final since 66 so everyone was happy to support him, but If results start to turn, his defensive cautious approach will be challenged and the final will soon be forgotten by the nation.
|
|
|
Post by Lobster on Jul 14, 2021 19:03:28 GMT
Yeah only as far as a final for the first time since 1966. Fine margins...if we'd hung on for an ugly 1-0 or could take penalties Southgate would be lauded as a genius. After the shambles at previous tournaments I see this as definite progress. The system he uses does allow creative players to flourish but relies on the wing backs getting forwards. Arguably the early goal led to a negative mindset. Fine margins? They didnt cross the half way line, in the second half and were playing a flat back 5. 1 shot at goal and all the creative players , on the bench. The 2 Italian centre backs that are older, than my granny , were camped in the centre circle. It was not unlucky, Tactically, it was dire. England should have defended 20 yards up the pitch had Grealish on from the start and tried to get constant pressure on the aging centre of the Italian defence. Getting a 1 goal lead and trying to defend it for 88 minutes , is not progress. Regardless of any tactical misjudgements, the margin was Rashford's penalty being a few inches too far to the left, and Pickford's hand being a similar distance from one or two of the penalties. I'd call that pretty fine margins.
|
|
|
Post by midfieldgeneral on Jul 15, 2021 3:26:55 GMT
Fine margins? They didnt cross the half way line, in the second half and were playing a flat back 5. 1 shot at goal and all the creative players , on the bench. The 2 Italian centre backs that are older, than my granny , were camped in the centre circle. It was not unlucky, Tactically, it was dire. England should have defended 20 yards up the pitch had Grealish on from the start and tried to get constant pressure on the aging centre of the Italian defence. Getting a 1 goal lead and trying to defend it for 88 minutes , is not progress. Regardless of any tactical misjudgements, the margin was Rashford's penalty being a few inches too far to the left, and Pickford's hand being a similar distance from one or two of the penalties. I'd call that pretty fine margins. I m not really bothered about the penalties. They are a lottery. There is zero analysis of why they didnt win. It was a missed opportunity, because with more tactical awareness and atracking flair,England could have won it. If Chester gave a 2nd half performance like that, they would have been booed off.
|
|
|
Post by iandychesterfc on Jul 15, 2021 8:41:12 GMT
I do see your point regards this 'glorious defeat' mantra being trotted out is preventing any critical discussion regards the choice of Mason Mount on the left wing, something we didnt do all tournament and following him being completely anonymous in the semi final.
I'm not dissing the player, i just cant understand the thought process of getting to a final with Sterling being arguably your best player and then moving him over to the right in the final to accommodate someone who hadnt performed to a level you would want.
Grealish has been a reasonable impact sub so i've no issue with him not starting the game but i'm just struggling to see why you would nullify your main attacking threat of the tournament.
Can we also just actually acknowledge how good pickford was in the shootout? keeper makes 2 quality saves you should be be winning the shootout.
|
|
|
Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jul 15, 2021 9:09:35 GMT
Spot on with both points - Sterling nullified on the right, don’t really get the clamour around Mount to be honest when Saka was impressive in the previous games and deserved to keep his place. Pickford an absolute hero, nine times out of ten if your keeper saves two penalties in a shootout you win it.
|
|
|
Post by Lobster on Jul 15, 2021 9:51:34 GMT
Pickford isn't the best keeper in the world but I can't think of too many I'd rather have in a shootout. He's possibly the main reason England have won a couple of shootouts in recent years, rather than anything the takers are doing better! He seems to know how to psyche out penalty takers and even crafty ones like Jorginho can't fool him.
|
|
|
Post by jimianto on Jul 15, 2021 10:17:32 GMT
Pickford isn't the best keeper in the world but I can't think of too many I'd rather have in a shootout. He's possibly the main reason England have won a couple of shootouts in recent years, rather than anything the takers are doing better! He seems to know how to psyche out penalty takers and even crafty ones like Jorginho can't fool him. Takes a decent penalty too! He had some mad moments in the tournament, but he was generally excellent and best performer in goal, just shading Donnarumma.
|
|