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Post by midfieldgeneral on Jul 11, 2021 21:59:13 GMT
Simple fact of the matter is Southgate is too defensive a coach. Why ration your creative players and try to defend a 1 goal lead? Suicide. It was only a matter of time before Italy equalised.
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Post by Lobster on Jul 11, 2021 22:00:22 GMT
Poor second half cost us. Like the last World Cup, I'm left feeling both proud of their efforts and frustrated at letting such a good chance slip away.
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Post by Old Seal on Jul 11, 2021 22:02:21 GMT
Disappointing yes. It's not whether this player played poorly, or that player played poorly, it's about scoring more goals than the competition. England we're second best especially in the second half. The better team won. But a penalty shoot out is a cruel way to lose a game. Every England player can feel proud of himself in my opinion. No doubt the people who know more will disagree đ´ó §ó ˘ó Ľó Žó §ó żâ˝ď¸
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Jul 11, 2021 22:05:45 GMT
Overwhelmingly positive tournament - just feel like we beat ourselves second half. Far too negative, hardly looked like scoring.
Think we got as far as penalties in spite of Southgate to be honest. Another learning curve for him and us, no doubt we'll be better for it in the long run. Just going to hurt for the next day or so!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2021 22:06:13 GMT
The mind boggles as to what the inevitable inquest in the media and on Twitbook throws up. Some of it will be justifiable criticism, some of it will be the usual massive overreaction.
It'll all die down in a few days and all those involved can then reflect and recover
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Post by cityboy5705 on Jul 11, 2021 22:17:43 GMT
Gutted but best team won we bottled it again rashford Sancho hang your head in shame
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Post by bluejay on Jul 11, 2021 22:22:39 GMT
Fantastic tournament. Closest England have come in 55 years. Really can't complain...
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Post by bluejay on Jul 11, 2021 22:23:59 GMT
Gutted but best team won we bottled it again rashford Sancho hang your head in shame They hadn't even touched the ball! Don't blame them just because they're Man Utd players.
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Post by cityboy5705 on Jul 11, 2021 22:26:25 GMT
Gutted but best team won we bottled it again rashford Sancho hang your head in shame They hadn't even touched the ball! Don't blame them just because they're Man Utd players. not cos there r utd players cos they were poor penalties and the run up rashford I admire as a person but not a great player sadly just got pace
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Post by cityboy5705 on Jul 11, 2021 22:27:13 GMT
Fantastic tournament. Closest England have come in 55 years. Really can't complain... we bottled it end of one shot on target not good enough
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Post by arthuro on Jul 11, 2021 22:32:53 GMT
Simple fact of the matter is Southgate is too defensive a coach. Why ration your creative players and try to defend a 1 goal lead? Suicide. It was only a matter of time before Italy equalised. We need to get you in instead. We can then look forward to having Joe Malkin and Will Godwin leading the line at the Workd Cup.
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Post by midfieldgeneral on Jul 11, 2021 22:40:52 GMT
Simple fact of the matter is Southgate is too defensive a coach. Why ration your creative players and try to defend a 1 goal lead? Suicide. It was only a matter of time before Italy equalised. We need to get you in instead. We can then look forward to having Joe Malkin and Will Godwin leading the line at the Workd Cup. Tripper or Grealish. Let me think about that one?
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Post by Lobster on Jul 11, 2021 22:41:18 GMT
Fantastic tournament. Closest England have come in 55 years. Really can't complain... Agree, two of the best tournaments I've ever seen have been this and the last World Cup, and not just because of England. And Italy have been the best team throughout the tournament.
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Jul 11, 2021 22:44:00 GMT
These last 3 years have represented progress. From 2008 to 2016 we were nowhere near the latter stages of tournaments nevermind close to winning them.
We've now been at the business end two tournaments in a row and the experience of all that will no doubt serve this young squad well.
If we can keep progressing then hopefully, one day, we'll get it right.
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Post by Frank Owenâs Paintbrush on Jul 11, 2021 22:50:39 GMT
One of them isnât it, once it goes to penalties itâs anyoneâs game. Especially in a final, at Wembley in front of your home crowd, with such a young, young side. The suggestion weâve made two semi-finals and a final in three years âin spite of Southgateâ is ridiculous. Embarrassing post whoever that was above.
The best team won on the night, and the best team won the tournament as a whole. Italy have simply been the best team right from the start (getting through that tough side of the draw too). Itâs tough to take, but our players will be better for it. Looking forward to the next step in Qatar next winter.
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Post by vandycandy on Jul 11, 2021 22:59:20 GMT
England bottled that I'm afraid. 1-0 up & very comfortable at half time, then giving a really crap goal away & from then on nothing going forward, did Donnarumma have a save to make in the entire match other than the atrocious penalties by the kid Sancho & Saka! Says it all. Way to negative after half time & I'm sorry but if you miss 3 pens in a row after being 2-1 up in the shootout you don't deserve to win. Having said that this England team is making great progress & will no doubt be in amongst the latter stages at the world cup next year. Still did the country very proud. Congrats Italy.
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Post by midfieldgeneral on Jul 11, 2021 23:04:25 GMT
The problem with playing a 3-5-2. Is that if you dont get your wing backs up. It can become a flat back 5., which is what happened, in the 2nd half. It was poor tactically. And gave Italy the impetus
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Post by Forever Blue on Jul 11, 2021 23:26:49 GMT
We sat way too deep second half and I can't even begin to imagine what was going on in Rashford's head when he took his pen, all that aside the lads have done really well and should be proud. I felt really sorry for Saka taking that last penalty what a massive responsibility on such young shoulders knowing a miss will seal your fate.
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Post by Frank Owenâs Paintbrush on Jul 11, 2021 23:37:10 GMT
Gutted for Pickford too - saving two penalties in a shootout, you usually win. For him to end up on the losing team after that, itâs demoralising.
What weâve achieved over the last three years with some of the youngest squads in England history can only bode well for the next few tournaments. Weâve had the ignominy of failing to qualify for 2008, first knockout round exits in 2010 and 2012, bottom of a group including Costa Rica in 2014, the Iceland debacle in 2016. From all that with the talent and experience we had at the time to getting to the business end of two major tournaments in a row with a young squad - two semis and a final in three years - takes some doing. âIn spite of Southgate.â
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Jul 11, 2021 23:40:30 GMT
The suggestion weâve made two semi-finals and a final in three years âin spite of Southgateâ is ridiculous. Embarrassing post whoever that was above. Cringeworthy this, nobody said that. I said that we took them as far as penos in spite of Southgate's tactics because I think he got some big decisions wrong this evening. I made no mention of any other occasion. Tough for the hard of understanding isn't it this football discussion lark FOP!
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Post by Wortleyblue on Jul 12, 2021 7:00:03 GMT
The suggestion weâve made two semi-finals and a final in three years âin spite of Southgateâ is ridiculous. Embarrassing post whoever that was above. Cringeworthy this, nobody said that. I said that we took them as far as penos in spite of Southgate's tactics because I think he got some big decisions wrong this evening. I made no mention of any other occasion. Tough for the hard of understanding isn't it this football discussion lark FOP! Unfortunately SWB on this occasion FOP is right "Overwhelmingly positive tournament - just feel like we beat ourselves second half. Far too negative, hardly looked like scoring. Think we got as far as penalties in spite of Southgate to be honest. Another learning curve for him and us, no doubt we'll be better for it in the long run. Just going to hurt for the next day or so!"
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Jul 12, 2021 7:29:17 GMT
Cringeworthy this, nobody said that. I said that we took them as far as penos in spite of Southgate's tactics because I think he got some big decisions wrong this evening. I made no mention of any other occasion. Tough for the hard of understanding isn't it this football discussion lark FOP! Unfortunately SWB on this occasion FOP is right "Overwhelmingly positive tournament - just feel like we beat ourselves second half. Far too negative, hardly looked like scoring. Think we got as far as penalties in spite of Southgate to be honest. Another learning curve for him and us, no doubt we'll be better for it in the long run. Just going to hurt for the next day or so!" That's only in reference to how he managed the game last night though after we went 1 up, clearly not what he's overall done since he came in. Come on lads I know we're all disappointed but it isn't that difficult to get your head around!!
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Post by bing on Jul 12, 2021 8:18:13 GMT
Hugely disappointing as I would have loved to see this England side win a trophy.
There's no doubt we have evolved a huge amount in the last few years - hopefully we can carry on the same trajectory to impose ourselves a little more in matches of that magnitude. Probably the worst thing that happened last night (and Croatia) was the early goal as we sat back and struggled to wrestle back momentum once they equalised.
Not a fan of bringing players on specifically to take a penalty. Firstly, it made it clear to the players on the pitch that we weren't really going for a late winner; secondly, it puts extra pressure on the players themselves to deliver.
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Post by Si on Jul 12, 2021 8:53:20 GMT
Tactically poor last night, and the penalty takers seemed baffling. Never agree with bringing someone on purely for a penalty, unless you give them some decent time to get a feel for the game and a few kicks. Still, great performance over the tournament, just gutted at the missed opportunity that this was.
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Post by lincolnexile on Jul 12, 2021 9:25:33 GMT
Tactically poor last night, and the penalty takers seemed baffling. Never agree with bringing someone on purely for a penalty, unless you give them some decent time to get a feel for the game and a few kicks. Still, great performance over the tournament, just gutted at the missed opportunity that this was. His management has been spot on all the way through until we got to half time yesterday. You canât defend a one goal lead for 88 minutes against a team that hasnât lost for 33 games. Bringing on the subs to take penalties was a baffling decision, especially asking Rashford to play full back for the last few minutes when we were under the cosh. You canât blame someone for missing a penalty when theyâve been sat on a bench for two hours. All in all the team and management have done the country proud, we just bottled it at the end. Itâs the difference between a team thatâs used to reaching tournament finals and one thatâs not. Saying that, if it had come off and weâd scored the last 2 penalties Southgate would be being hailed as a tactical genius this morning and be on his way to the palace to pick up his knighthood by now. Itâs a fine line between glory and failure at the end of the day.
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Post by eyeswideopen on Jul 12, 2021 9:37:02 GMT
So on reflection my assessment of England being bang average was a bit harsh. I would say they are decent team, but decent isn't great or exceptional. The second half performance last night personified that. Our leading hope of a goalscorer never touched the ball in the opposition box once in 120 minutes. That tells its own story. Cant understand why Raheem Sterling cant bring himself to take a penalty, i also got the feeling Grealish was absolutely itching to take one too. Fair play to the young lads who stepped up to take one, huge responsibility to undertake.
Italy were by far the better team last night and on their performances throughout the tournament were worthy winners.
Lets hope we make a few needed changes for the WC next year to improve the squad and fingers crossed we can give a good account of ourselves again.
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Post by Si on Jul 12, 2021 9:38:40 GMT
Tactically poor last night, and the penalty takers seemed baffling. Never agree with bringing someone on purely for a penalty, unless you give them some decent time to get a feel for the game and a few kicks. Still, great performance over the tournament, just gutted at the missed opportunity that this was. His management has been spot on all the way through until we got to half time yesterday. You canât defend a one goal lead for 88 minutes against a team that hasnât lost for 33 games. Bringing on the subs to take penalties was a baffling decision, especially asking Rashford to play full back for the last few minutes when we were under the cosh. You canât blame someone for missing a penalty when theyâve been sat on a bench for two hours. All in all the team and management have done the country proud, we just bottled it at the end. Itâs the difference between a team thatâs used to reaching tournament finals and one thatâs not. Saying that, if it had come off and weâd scored the last 2 penalties Southgate would be being hailed as a tactical genius this morning and be on his way to the palace to pick up his knighthood by now. Itâs a fine line between glory and failure at the end of the day. I do think we missed a Grealish or Foden, a ball carrier with technical abilities to match the Italians, there were too many times in that second half that the defenders had nobody to hit and ended up punting it long. I do like Phillips but too often last night he was fed the ball and passed it straight back, rather than turning and seeing what's in front of him. Didn't help that Kane looked gassed after 50 minutes - if it wasn't for the fact he could take a penalty then there was a strong argument for him being hooked for Calvert Lewin who could have bashed their two centre backs about a bit more.
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Post by Frank Owenâs Paintbrush on Jul 12, 2021 10:02:40 GMT
Nail on head - Italy are used to going far in tournaments, weâve only just started on that trajectory really over the last three years. Great hope for the future for this group of players. The three who missed the spot kicks are 23, 21 and 19 years of age. I think also the likes of Sterling and Kane were running on empty tanks towards the end of the second half - similar to Denmark against us in the semi, just one game too far.
Horrific to see a flood of racial abuse all over their social media and other generic social media pages last night and this morning. This summer has seen the best of this country (the multicultural socially-conscious young players) and the worst (the narrow-minded pig ignorant racist and violent fans). The fact England canât lose a game of football without a shitload of fans committing hate crimes online and physically is terrifying.
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Post by waggoner on Jul 12, 2021 10:12:15 GMT
Hugely disappointing as I would have loved to see this England side win a trophy. There's no doubt we have evolved a huge amount in the last few years - hopefully we can carry on the same trajectory to impose ourselves a little more in matches of that magnitude. Probably the worst thing that happened last night (and Croatia) was the early goal as we sat back and struggled to wrestle back momentum once they equalised. Not a fan of bringing players on specifically to take a penalty. Firstly, it made it clear to the players on the pitch that we weren't really going for a late winner; secondly, it puts extra pressure on the players themselves to deliver.Very true. Now i'm not a Southgate hater because the improvement over the last few years is there for all to see. That Italian side was full of experience and that is what won it for them in the end. This England team is one for the future, full of gifted but raw kids. The one thing that drove me mad (apart from playing a 7-2-1 formation midway through the 2nd half because we were that deep) was that we have loads of kids on the bench who Southgate suspected are not ready for a hotbed like last night, thus they were there to protect them. So why bring them on to take penalties? because they will carry this with them for a long time. One example of being chucked to the lions was Saka. He looked great against teams like Ukraine looked world class in fact, this is until he faced Italy when he actually looked out of his depth. He will come back stronger but got a very rude awakening last night.
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Post by superman on Jul 12, 2021 10:38:12 GMT
Disappointed at the result, but proud of the team. Inexperience probably the telling difference. It has been great to look forward to each England game with optimism rather than the usual dread. Well done boys you did us proud, and well done Italy the best team in the tournament.
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