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Post by bluey7 on Jun 7, 2021 7:31:59 GMT
has taken the knee gone far enough in football ? should it now be stopped,fans have clearly had enough. the point has been clearly made.
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Post by midfieldgeneral on Jun 7, 2021 7:46:20 GMT
Perhaps it might stop, when the minority of England's racist, knuckledragging fans stop booing the players for doing it.
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Post by waggoner on Jun 7, 2021 8:12:06 GMT
Perhaps it might stop, when the minority of England's racist, knuckledragging fans stop booing the players for doing it. I think it should stop. In my opinion there is a lot of players who feel the same. IF a players stood up and refused to take a knee the press would ruin their career by branding them a racist. Black lives DO matter racism is disgusting in this modern age it really is. However this taking a knee has been done to death. It dosen't help when the majority of the black players use it as a political platform by making the 'Black panthers salute' whilst kneeling and i think this is what fuels the dickheads to boo. It's time for another route now. For instance END RACISM and Social exclusion printed on all kits teams play in. Banners around the ground saying END RACISM. Print it in the matchday program. But this clearly manufactured taking a knee has run it's course. I did notice that one of the Rominian players never took a knee last night and it has not caused widespread trouble
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jun 7, 2021 9:51:02 GMT
Perhaps it might stop, when the minority of England's racist, knuckledragging fans stop booing the players for doing it. Got to laugh at the same football fans calling it a “Marxist” movement whilst simultaneously calling for clubs to be taken from their private owners and brought into fan ownership (see the fallout from the ESL) - absolutely no self-awareness whatsoever.
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Post by Si on Jun 7, 2021 10:06:11 GMT
For me, it's lost it's impact and therefore has no benefit and is pointless. I'm not denying there's an issue in the game and society as a whole, but the actual act of taking the knee has become stale and it's time for the campaign against racism to evolve and come up with something more meaningful.
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Post by cityboy5705 on Jun 7, 2021 11:43:35 GMT
I will do it but not for George Floyd but for one of my favorite players ever dallian Atkinson it has it's place
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Post by Lobster on Jun 7, 2021 11:57:03 GMT
Booing it is really not a great look, but I don't think it's helping. It's making things worse if anything and isn't "educating" anyone. Education works both ways and perhaps players and managers need to listen to some of the more rational criticisms of the movement as well.
Kind of up to black players what they think about it really. John Barnes and Les Ferdinand have hinted they're not keen on it, along with Wilfred Zaha.
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Post by Lobster on Jun 7, 2021 11:59:10 GMT
Perhaps it might stop, when the minority of England's racist, knuckledragging fans stop booing the players for doing it. Got to laugh at the same football fans calling it a “Marxist” movement whilst simultaneously calling for clubs to be taken from their private owners and brought into fan ownership (see the fallout from the ESL) - absolutely no self-awareness whatsoever. James O'Brien always asks people who call into his show complaining of something being "Marxist" to explain what that term means. Very few of them can. There's nothing remotely Marxist about taking a knee before a game.
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Post by Ian H Block on Jun 7, 2021 12:24:56 GMT
Got to laugh at the same football fans calling it a “Marxist” movement whilst simultaneously calling for clubs to be taken from their private owners and brought into fan ownership (see the fallout from the ESL) - absolutely no self-awareness whatsoever. James O'Brien always asks people who call into his show complaining of something being "Marxist" to explain what that term means. Very few of them can. There's nothing remotely Marxist about taking a knee before a game. People spouting the old Marxism stuff is just a smokescreen to camouflage their racism. They fool nobody, except possibly themselves.
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jun 7, 2021 14:02:27 GMT
Marx never spoke of racial conflict, only class conflict - then again, the two are historically interwoven as we know from the slave trade.
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Post by weareblues on Jun 7, 2021 16:46:17 GMT
It’s lost its meaning just become a trend like clap for carers Imo they should have a weekend dedicated to it each season Same way they do with remembrance, Gay pride etc
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Post by Neil Hunt Nonsense Potter on Jun 7, 2021 17:51:45 GMT
Wow, this thread has highlighted some of our hard of thinking fans.
If the players choose to do it is it that hard to stfu for 10 seconds?
You only have to look at the shit Rashford got last week to see that the problem really hasn't gone away.
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Post by agl on Jun 7, 2021 18:30:49 GMT
Wow, this thread has highlighted some of our hard of thinking fans. If the players choose to do it is it that hard to stfu for 10 seconds? You only have to look at the shit Rashford got last week to see that the problem really hasn't gone away. You're right. Imo it's becoming meaningless but ffs just respect it. A few seconds out of your life. Effectively those fans who can't do that are targeting their own players.
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jun 7, 2021 19:09:39 GMT
That’s just it, take away the reason behind the stance for a minute and look at the situation like this - England “supporters” are booing their own team before the game kicks off. Embarrassing.
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Post by thetheremin on Jun 7, 2021 21:58:36 GMT
It should continue if the players want to do it and feel it is necessary. Almost without exception every squad contains black players, many of whom with their own difficult pasts because of racism. Why shouldn’t their team mates support them and all black people who have and continue to have tough lives exactly because of the sort of racist ill-educated people booing them? The booing simply makes the gesture more necessary IMO. That’s the bit the dickheads who are booing don’t understand. But they’re too stupid to see it.
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Post by eyeswideopen on Jun 8, 2021 7:27:51 GMT
Wow, this thread has highlighted some of our hard of thinking fans. If the players choose to do it is it that hard to stfu for 10 seconds? You only have to look at the shit Rashford got last week to see that the problem really hasn't gone away. Are players choosing to do it though, do they feel compelled to do it? it doesn't make them a racist if they feel they shouldnt have to take a knee and is somewhat ironic that players may feel pressured by their clubs in order to show respect against oppression. I am with some other posters on here thinking that maybe now run its course and time for a change of approach to highlight that racism has no place anywhere in society. How about if clubs were really serious they would replace their shirt sponsors with a Black Lives Matter logo, or a kick it out picture. What and lose millions in revenue, not a chance Thought so.
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Post by Ian H Block on Jun 8, 2021 8:38:12 GMT
Wow, this thread has highlighted some of our hard of thinking fans. If the players choose to do it is it that hard to stfu for 10 seconds? You only have to look at the shit Rashford got last week to see that the problem really hasn't gone away. Are players choosing to do it though, do they feel compelled to do it? it doesn't make them a racist if they feel they shouldnt have to take a knee and is somewhat ironic that players may feel pressured by their clubs in order to show respect against oppression. I am with some other posters on here thinking that maybe now run its course and time for a change of approach to highlight that racism has no place anywhere in society. How about if clubs were really serious they would replace their shirt sponsors with a Black Lives Matter logo, or a kick it out picture. What and lose millions in revenue, not a chance Thought so. Are players being pressured by their teammates or Clubs to take the knee? I’ve heard no evidence of this and it’s a real stretch to presume so. Whatever is happening it’s still no excuse for the grotesque spectacle of ‘supporters’ booing players for making an anti-racism gesture.
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Post by Deva Chanter on Jun 8, 2021 8:51:03 GMT
It is even more important to continue with taking the knee in the face of the booing from some sections of supporters. To stop doing it now in reaction to some knuckle-draggers would be allowing the racists to win. The point of continuing to take the knee is to show solidarity to those who face racism - doing it before every match is an attempt to normalise anti-racism.
I mean just imagine being the sort of person that gets angry enough about this stuff to boo your own players before a match. Properly stupid scum.
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Post by jimianto on Jun 8, 2021 10:13:18 GMT
I t should continue if the players want to do it and feel it is necessary. Almost without exception every squad contains black players, many of whom with their own difficult pasts because of racism. Why shouldn’t their team mates support them and all black people who have and continue to have tough lives exactly because of the sort of racist ill-educated people booing them? The booing simply makes the gesture more necessary IMO. That’s the bit the dickheads who are booing don’t understand. But they’re too stupid to see it. But how many players really want to do it. Any non-black English player failing to comply is in for a a high degree of criticism and scrutiny. The UK football version of taking the knee came directly from BLM. Many people think this political organisation is divisive, with defund the police, antifa connections etc. Some say, it is aimed at the generic blm and not political BLM, but clearly the BLM logo has been all over the 'taking the knee' in the UK, following the protests following the death of George Floyd. That's why people boo. They are not booing the players, but those 'behind the scenes' who perpetuate the situation - mainly the media. The 'taking the knee' booing will not go away and will only cause further division, which is not what football needs.
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Post by Ian H Block on Jun 8, 2021 10:30:23 GMT
I t should continue if the players want to do it and feel it is necessary. Almost without exception every squad contains black players, many of whom with their own difficult pasts because of racism. Why shouldn’t their team mates support them and all black people who have and continue to have tough lives exactly because of the sort of racist ill-educated people booing them? The booing simply makes the gesture more necessary IMO. That’s the bit the dickheads who are booing don’t understand. But they’re too stupid to see it. But how many players really want to do it. Any non-black English player failing to comply is in for a a high degree of criticism and scrutiny. The UK football version of taking the knee came directly from BLM. Many people think this political organisation is divisive, with defund the police, antifa connections etc. Some say, it is aimed at the generic blm and not political BLM, but clearly the BLM logo has been all over the 'taking the knee' in the UK, following the protests following the death of George Floyd. That's why people boo. They are not booing the players, but those 'behind the scenes' who perpetuate the situation - mainly the media. The 'taking the knee' booing will not go away and will only cause further division, which is not what football needs. If they are booing those “behind the scenes” people why direct it at the players on the pitch, who are merely kneeling in peace and solidarity, asserting Black people are treated as equals to White people. Cannot understand how anyone can have an issue with that. And what’s your problem with anti-fascism? On the anniversary of D Day and the Battle of Normandy we should be thankful we had anti-fascists in 1944.
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Jun 8, 2021 11:18:55 GMT
I t should continue if the players want to do it and feel it is necessary. Almost without exception every squad contains black players, many of whom with their own difficult pasts because of racism. Why shouldn’t their team mates support them and all black people who have and continue to have tough lives exactly because of the sort of racist ill-educated people booing them? The booing simply makes the gesture more necessary IMO. That’s the bit the dickheads who are booing don’t understand. But they’re too stupid to see it. But how many players really want to do it. Any non-black English player failing to comply is in for a a high degree of criticism and scrutiny. The UK football version of taking the knee came directly from BLM. Many people think this political organisation is divisive, with defund the police, antifa connections etc. Some say, it is aimed at the generic blm and not political BLM, but clearly the BLM logo has been all over the 'taking the knee' in the UK, following the protests following the death of George Floyd. That's why people boo. They are not booing the players, but those 'behind the scenes' who perpetuate the situation - mainly the media. The 'taking the knee' booing will not go away and will only cause further division, which is not what football needs. Wow. Let me break down some of your points. It has already been said by those involved that the England players do want to continue to take the knee. They certainly don’t look as if they’re doing it under duress. Footballers taking the knee is nothing to do with the “Black Lives Matter” organisation or George Floyd’s murder but more so the “black lives matter” (lower case) movement. The first known “take the knee” was by the American football player Colin Kaepernick in protest of police brutality and racial inequality as far back as 2016. That’s where it comes from. In any case, why would “links with antifa” (anti-fascist) actually be divisive? Imagine thinking someone who supports ANTI-fascism is divisive! Surely we’re all opposed to fascism are we not? Especially this week of all weeks. You said “they are not booing the players” - mate, they are literally booing the players. It’s exactly what they’re doing. Before the game too! So-called “fans”. On your final point, I agree - further division is not what football needs. The point we appear to disagree on is that whereas I feel that division is being caused by the people carrying out the booing, you seem to suggest it’s being caused by players taking an anti-racism stance.
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Post by jimianto on Jun 8, 2021 13:02:33 GMT
But how many players really want to do it. Any non-black English player failing to comply is in for a a high degree of criticism and scrutiny. The UK football version of taking the knee came directly from BLM. Many people think this political organisation is divisive, with defund the police, antifa connections etc. Some say, it is aimed at the generic blm and not political BLM, but clearly the BLM logo has been all over the 'taking the knee' in the UK, following the protests following the death of George Floyd. That's why people boo. They are not booing the players, but those 'behind the scenes' who perpetuate the situation - mainly the media. The 'taking the knee' booing will not go away and will only cause further division, which is not what football needs. Wow. Let me break down some of your points. It has already been said by those involved that the England players do want to continue to take the knee. They certainly don’t look as if they’re doing it under duress. Footballers taking the knee is nothing to do with the “Black Lives Matter” organisation or George Floyd’s murder but more so the “black lives matter” (lower case) movement. The first known “take the knee” was by the American football player Colin Kaepernick in protest of police brutality and racial inequality as far back as 2016. That’s where it comes from. In any case, why would “links with antifa” (anti-fascist) actually be divisive? Imagine thinking someone who supports ANTI-fascism is divisive! Surely we’re all opposed to fascism are we not? Especially this week of all weeks. You said “they are not booing the players” - mate, they are literally booing the players. It’s exactly what they’re doing. Before the game too! So-called “fans”. On your final point, I agree - further division is not what football needs. The point we appear to disagree on is that whereas I feel that division is being caused by the people carrying out the booing, you seem to suggest it’s being caused by players taking an anti-racism stance. I am sure no player is going to look like they are doing it under duress. Not all players will share your political opinion, or mine, but some will be doing it because they feel they have to, no doubt about it. I am aware of the history of the knee (US military used it to honour fallen comrades way before Kaepernick btw). What I am saying is that it wasn't done by UK footballers prior to Floyd/BLM and that is fact. Also it certainly was initially 'packaged' with BLM. I suppose I will concede a bit on the fans booing the actions of the players, but I still don't think it is meant personally to any of the individual players, moreover what I said before. Hopefully, we'll find a compromise solution to promote positive actions for anti-racism, but take away political tokenism. But doubling down on the 'unpopular in some quarters' taking of the knee is not the way forward. It has become toxic.
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Post by Deva Chanter on Jun 8, 2021 13:27:35 GMT
Wow. Let me break down some of your points. It has already been said by those involved that the England players do want to continue to take the knee. They certainly don’t look as if they’re doing it under duress. Footballers taking the knee is nothing to do with the “Black Lives Matter” organisation or George Floyd’s murder but more so the “black lives matter” (lower case) movement. The first known “take the knee” was by the American football player Colin Kaepernick in protest of police brutality and racial inequality as far back as 2016. That’s where it comes from. In any case, why would “links with antifa” (anti-fascist) actually be divisive? Imagine thinking someone who supports ANTI-fascism is divisive! Surely we’re all opposed to fascism are we not? Especially this week of all weeks. You said “they are not booing the players” - mate, they are literally booing the players. It’s exactly what they’re doing. Before the game too! So-called “fans”. On your final point, I agree - further division is not what football needs. The point we appear to disagree on is that whereas I feel that division is being caused by the people carrying out the booing, you seem to suggest it’s being caused by players taking an anti-racism stance. I am sure no player is going to look like they are doing it under duress. Not all players will share your political opinion, or mine, but some will be doing it because they feel they have to, no doubt about it. I am aware of the history of the knee (US military used it to honour fallen comrades way before Kaepernick btw). What I am saying is that it wasn't done by UK footballers prior to Floyd/BLM and that is fact. Also it certainly was initially 'packaged' with BLM. I suppose I will concede a bit on the fans booing the actions of the players, but I still don't think it is meant personally to any of the individual players, moreover what I said before. Hopefully, we'll find a compromise solution to promote positive actions for anti-racism, but take away political tokenism. But doubling down on the 'unpopular in some quarters' taking of the knee is not the way forward. It has become toxic. Except it isn't taking the knee that is toxic, it is the reaction that is. You could change the action to a raised fist, lying down on their stomachs, standing in a line holding hands - it wouldn't matter, you'd still have the same reaction. In some ways, the usefulness of the knee taking is increasing with time: it is now becoming an incredibly useful way of outing racists in football grounds.
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Post by Lobster on Jun 8, 2021 14:43:14 GMT
As far as I can tell, there is no "Black Lives Matter" organisation as such. Its just a slogan and is not trademarked, so any action committed in the name of Black rights can use it. That inevitably means not everyone is going to agree with everything done under its name.
I think for some people, the line is a bit blurred over what they are supporting or opposing. For a start, I think some mistakenly think the whole knee thing is about George Floyd, perhaps because of the unfortunate coincidence that he was killed by the knee of a police officer. In that context, the phrase "taking a knee" is not ideal really, I think they should just call it "kneeling", but the gesture itself dates back to 2016.
So, if you don't like things like the removal of statues and the defund the police campaign, that's fine, but don't allow that to cloud the wider message of respect and anti-discrimination. Really some section of the white community need to grow up a bit and realise that the point of an anti-racism campaign is not to make you feel comfortable, but to make you question whether you are an ally of black people or just "not a racist", which is the bare minimum. The people who boo it are the sort of people who throw the term "snowflake" about, but really they are the snowflakes because they're not strong enough people to ask questions of themselves and step out of their own confort zones.
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Post by muffinthemule on Jun 8, 2021 14:49:30 GMT
Whilst I dont agree with racism in any form I can't help but think that the knee has run its course and to many people has become meaningless. Having said that, there is no way I would boo those that continue to take the knee. It's a matter of seconds and if one can't tolerate it for such a short time then stay away.
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Post by thetheremin on Jun 8, 2021 17:23:42 GMT
I t should continue if the players want to do it and feel it is necessary. Almost without exception every squad contains black players, many of whom with their own difficult pasts because of racism. Why shouldn’t their team mates support them and all black people who have and continue to have tough lives exactly because of the sort of racist ill-educated people booing them? The booing simply makes the gesture more necessary IMO. That’s the bit the dickheads who are booing don’t understand. But they’re too stupid to see it. But how many players really want to do it. Any non-black English player failing to comply is in for a a high degree of criticism and scrutiny. The UK football version of taking the knee came directly from BLM. Many people think this political organisation is divisive, with defund the police, antifa connections etc. Some say, it is aimed at the generic blm and not political BLM, but clearly the BLM logo has been all over the 'taking the knee' in the UK, following the protests following the death of George Floyd. That's why people boo. They are not booing the players, but those 'behind the scenes' who perpetuate the situation - mainly the media. The 'taking the knee' booing will not go away and will only cause further division, which is not what football needs. Get real. Most of those booing don’t want to be questioned or challenged on what they feel is their right to spread racism and hate. The fact they are booing calls out those people for exactly what they are. They are not making some nuanced anti-media and anti-Marxist point by booing.
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Post by thetheremin on Jun 8, 2021 17:25:40 GMT
Whilst I dont agree with racism in any form I can't help but think that the knee has run its course and to many people has become meaningless. Having said that, there is no way I would boo those that continue to take the knee. It's a matter of seconds and if one can't tolerate it for such a short time then stay away. How can being against racism have run its course. The fact that knuckle draggers are booing tells you it hasn’t.
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Post by waggoner on Jun 8, 2021 17:30:43 GMT
But how many players really want to do it. Any non-black English player failing to comply is in for a a high degree of criticism and scrutiny. The UK football version of taking the knee came directly from BLM. Many people think this political organisation is divisive, with defund the police, antifa connections etc. Some say, it is aimed at the generic blm and not political BLM, but clearly the BLM logo has been all over the 'taking the knee' in the UK, following the protests following the death of George Floyd. That's why people boo. They are not booing the players, but those 'behind the scenes' who perpetuate the situation - mainly the media. The 'taking the knee' booing will not go away and will only cause further division, which is not what football needs. If they are booing those “behind the scenes” people why direct it at the players on the pitch, who are merely kneeling in peace and solidarity, asserting Black people are treated as equals to White people. Cannot understand how anyone can have an issue with that.And what’s your problem with anti-fascism? On the anniversary of D Day and the Battle of Normandy we should be thankful we had anti-fascists in 1944. Nail on the head mate. There is no understanding why people would have a problem with it. Racism is inbedded into society and people have been trying to turn it around for over 300 years BUT it's still as big a problem now as it was years ago. People can kneel all they want but the message just will not sink into some pillocks heads
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Post by waggoner on Jun 8, 2021 17:34:14 GMT
Whilst I dont agree with racism in any form I can't help but think that the knee has run its course and to many people has become meaningless. Having said that, there is no way I would boo those that continue to take the knee. It's a matter of seconds and if one can't tolerate it for such a short time then stay away. How can being against racism have run its course. The fact that knuckle draggers are booing tells you it hasn’t. I don't think he said that being against racism has run it's course, he said that this particular way of tackling it has. Now the morons are hijacking it the time has come to move to another way. Maybe a period of applause before a match in support of the fight against racism would drown them out?
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Post by Captain Duff on Jun 8, 2021 18:24:10 GMT
Racism still exists and is still a problem. Taking the knee as a protest did have powerful origins (and before George Floyd - to this day no US football team will sign Colin Kaepernick following what he did in 2016)... but... the problem now is it is theatre, a peer pressure ritual, and has a questionable positive effect in pushing the debate forward to get racism out of sport and society.
So I do think it needs to end to be able to move on and challenge in different ways - Show Racism the Red Card has always had a deeply grassroots-based approach when it comes to working with fans and communities, with a strong focus on youth work and education. That to me is where the real battle of ideas needs to be fought and won against the racists.
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