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Post by Lobster on Mar 15, 2021 16:28:21 GMT
Germany have announced suspension too now, three days after dismissing the blood clot concerns. If I was being cynical I might suggest this is a convenient excuse for their slow vaccine rollout. If I was being cynical that is... The counter argument to that is maybe the UK made such a mess of their handling of the virus, we're now trying to save face by gambling on a vaccine other nations have doubts about. I don't know, it's a little disconcerting given the likes of Germany and Ireland have got a lot more right than we have, but I don't want to share vaccine scares and you have to trust your own scientists and medics. The number of blood clot incidents seems very small and I'd have to think I'm more at risk of Covid than of that. |
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Post by delamereal on Mar 15, 2021 16:56:34 GMT
If I was being cynical I might suggest this is a convenient excuse for their slow vaccine rollout. If I was being cynical that is... The counter argument to that is maybe the UK made such a mess of their handling of the virus, we're now trying to save face by gambling on a vaccine other nations have doubts about. I don't know, it's a little disconcerting given the likes of Germany and Ireland have got a lot more right than we have, but I don't want to share vaccine scares and you have to trust your own scientists and medics. The number of blood clot incidents seems very small and I'd have to think I'm more at risk of Covid than of that. That's open to question as germany are now experiencing a 3rd wave, along with most of Central Europe. |
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Post by delamereal on Mar 15, 2021 17:00:26 GMT
Germany have announced suspension too now, three days after dismissing the blood clot concerns. Report at 16.50 You forgot to include the WHO advice about this, but hey why let the up to date truth get in the way of sensationalism. Seem to recall that you were quite happy to accept a vaccination. |
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LOCKDOWN
Mar 15, 2021 17:01:44 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Mar 15, 2021 17:01:44 GMT
It isn’t really open to question, they have still got more right than we have.
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Mar 15, 2021 17:02:48 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Mar 15, 2021 17:02:48 GMT
Germany have announced suspension too now, three days after dismissing the blood clot concerns. Report at 16.50 You forgot to include the WHO advice about this, but hey why let the up to date truth get in the way of sensationalism. Seem to recall that you were quite happy to accept a vaccination. Calm your knickers, I was merely stating a fact - not an opinion one way or the other. You literally quoted my post and all! Looking for something that isn’t there in order to start an argument. Oh, and for the record, I didn’t have the Oxford-AstraZenecer, I had the Pfizer. |
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Post by luke90 on Mar 15, 2021 17:08:44 GMT
If I was being cynical I might suggest this is a convenient excuse for their slow vaccine rollout. If I was being cynical that is... The counter argument to that is maybe the UK made such a mess of their handling of the virus, we're now trying to save face by gambling on a vaccine other nations have doubts about. I don't know, it's a little disconcerting given the likes of Germany and Ireland have got a lot more right than we have, but I don't want to share vaccine scares and you have to trust your own scientists and medics. The number of blood clot incidents seems very small and I'd have to think I'm more at risk of Covid than of that. What rubbish. They've made a lot of mistakes yeah, but the vaccination roll out isn't one of them. Keep in mind this vaccine has been approved by our regulator as well as the EU's and also the WHO and it is backed by the scientific community. To suggest the government is gambling on this vaccine is just fanciful! |
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Mar 15, 2021 17:42:50 GMT
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Post by Lobster on Mar 15, 2021 17:42:50 GMT
The counter argument to that is maybe the UK made such a mess of their handling of the virus, we're now trying to save face by gambling on a vaccine other nations have doubts about. I don't know, it's a little disconcerting given the likes of Germany and Ireland have got a lot more right than we have, but I don't want to share vaccine scares and you have to trust your own scientists and medics. The number of blood clot incidents seems very small and I'd have to think I'm more at risk of Covid than of that. What rubbish. They've made a lot of mistakes yeah, but the vaccination roll out isn't one of them. Keep in mind this vaccine has been approved by our regulator as well as the EU's and also the WHO and it is backed by the scientific community. To suggest the government is gambling on this vaccine is just fanciful! Yes it is, but I think Jed's suggestion about Germany was fanciful too. |
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Mar 16, 2021 8:45:56 GMT
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Post by Lobster on Mar 16, 2021 8:45:56 GMT
The AstroZeneca vaccine is now being assessed by WHO.
From what I gather on this, the concern among the 11 nations is that the evidence on the vaccine and blood clotting is unclear, and scientific principles say that if that's the case, its use should be suspended. The question is whether that attitude is too cautious at this time of global emergency.
I suspect the WHO findings will be that the vaccine is safe and we should continue using it. Certain sources will react to that news with "we were right and they were wrong", but it's not really a case of who is right, but how much risk it's responsible to take.
For that reason, I would say there is an element of gambling in the UK and WHO's approach. However, overall, I think ours is probably a better strategy, for once!
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Post by jedthehumanoid on Mar 16, 2021 9:10:31 GMT
What rubbish. They've made a lot of mistakes yeah, but the vaccination roll out isn't one of them. Keep in mind this vaccine has been approved by our regulator as well as the EU's and also the WHO and it is backed by the scientific community. To suggest the government is gambling on this vaccine is just fanciful! Yes it is, but I think Jed's suggestion about Germany was fanciful too. Yeah I was playing devils advocate a bit there on purpose, but there's definitely evidence to suggest some countries have been briefing against the Astra Zeneca vaccine from the start. Bild and Handelsblatt both had to retract stories that made false claims about the vaccines effectiveness and Emanuel Macron said something about it being "quasi-ineffective" or something equally stupid. Angela Merkel wasn't exactly quick to correct him when questioned either. Of course caution is always the best path with these things but this really does seem like a massive over-reaction. There was a guy on radio Wales this morning (didn't catch his name, an expert in vaccines of some kind anyway) who said the rate of blood clots reported after having the vaccine is actually lower than the normal rate reported in the general population. Now no-one would suggest the vaccine helps stop blood clots based on this evidence. To suggest it does cause them because 40 people have had clots after a dose of the vaccine does seem a bit off, especially considering 17 million doses have been administered. |
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Post by Lobster on Mar 16, 2021 10:23:00 GMT
Yes it is, but I think Jed's suggestion about Germany was fanciful too. Yeah I was playing devils advocate a bit there on purpose, but there's definitely evidence to suggest some countries have been briefing against the Astra Zeneca vaccine from the start. Bild and Handelsblatt both had to retract stories that made false claims about the vaccines effectiveness and Emanuel Macron said something about it being "quasi-ineffective" or something equally stupid. Angela Merkel wasn't exactly quick to correct him when questioned either. Of course caution is always the best path with these things but this really does seem like a massive over-reaction. There was a guy on radio Wales this morning (didn't catch his name, an expert in vaccines of some kind anyway) who said the rate of blood clots reported after having the vaccine is actually lower than the normal rate reported in the general population. Now no-one would suggest the vaccine helps stop blood clots based on this evidence. To suggest it does cause them because 40 people have had clots after a dose of the vaccine does seem a bit off, especially considering 17 million doses have been administered. The numbers do seem incredibly small, but I suppose they are small enough for cases to be looked at on an individual bases. I'm no scientist but I feel like there must be more to it than the numbers, otherwise you could link the vaccine to just about any condition or illness. |
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Post by Wortleyblue on Mar 16, 2021 14:58:17 GMT
European regulator: 'No indication' Oxford jab is cause of blood clots link |
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Post by delamereal on Mar 16, 2021 18:22:08 GMT
Germany have announced suspension too now, three days after dismissing the blood clot concerns. Frank, Frank, are you there Frank??? |
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Mar 16, 2021 19:10:46 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Mar 16, 2021 19:10:46 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-56398877 Report at 16.50 You forgot to include the WHO advice about this, but hey why let the up to date truth get in the way of sensationalism. Seem to recall that you were quite happy to accept a vaccination. Calm your knickers, I was merely stating a fact - not an opinion one way or the other. You literally quoted my post and all! Looking for something that isn’t there in order to start an argument. Oh, and for the record, I didn’t have the Oxford-AstraZenecer, I had the Pfizer. . |
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Post by Wortleyblue on Mar 16, 2021 20:05:58 GMT
Calm your knickers, I was merely stating a fact - not an opinion one way or the other. You literally quoted my post and all! Looking for something that isn’t there in order to start an argument. Oh, and for the record, I didn’t have the Oxford-AstraZenecer, I had the Pfizer. . I had the Oxford 3 weeks ago no problems, my wife also had the Oxford 2 weeks ago again no problems and we have no worries about it |
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Mar 16, 2021 20:46:03 GMT
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Post by luke90 on Mar 16, 2021 20:46:03 GMT
I had the Oxford 3 weeks ago no problems, my wife also had the Oxford 2 weeks ago again no problems and we have no worries about it I had my first jab today, other than a sore arm, not dead yet! Though I must say, I'm Telford based and went to the largest vaccination centre in the area, I was one of about 4 people in and this was 12.15. In and out within 10 minutes. Hopefully just a slow day, I do hope this isn't a cause of this rubbish about it being unsafe |
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Mar 17, 2021 13:37:02 GMT
I had the Oxford 3 weeks ago no problems, my wife also had the Oxford 2 weeks ago again no problems and we have no worries about it I had my first jab today, other than a sore arm, not dead yet! Though I must say, I'm Telford based and went to the largest vaccination centre in the area, I was one of about 4 people in and this was 12.15. In and out within 10 minutes. Hopefully just a slow day, I do hope this isn't a cause of this rubbish about it being unsafe It's so unsafe that they're now threatening to block exports of it - again! They're having nightmare over there aren't they. |
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Post by Lobster on Mar 17, 2021 14:36:20 GMT
I had my first jab today, other than a sore arm, not dead yet! Though I must say, I'm Telford based and went to the largest vaccination centre in the area, I was one of about 4 people in and this was 12.15. In and out within 10 minutes. Hopefully just a slow day, I do hope this isn't a cause of this rubbish about it being unsafe It's so unsafe that they're now threatening to block exports of it - again! They're having nightmare over there aren't they. That's an EU matter. It's not the EU expressing concerns, it's just some nations within it and some outside of it (e.g. Norway). Also, nobody as far as I can see has said it's unsafe - just that the evidence is unclear and further research may be needed. I suspect they are being overly cautious but I feel it's important to understand the issue as I feel an unhealthily sweeping "us and them" mentality is beginning to creep into this debate. |
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Post by luke90 on Mar 17, 2021 14:48:27 GMT
It's so unsafe that they're now threatening to block exports of it - again! They're having nightmare over there aren't they. That's an EU matter. It's not the EU expressing concerns, it's just some nations within it and some outside of it (e.g. Norway). Also, nobody as far as I can see has said it's unsafe - just that the evidence is unclear and further research may be needed. I suspect they are being overly cautious but I feel it's important to understand the issue as I feel an unhealthily sweeping "us and them" mentality is beginning to creep into this debate. I don't see the need to stop the roll out though. With any vaccine or medicine for that matter, a side effect can be anything up to and including death. Take too many paracetamol (even 1 or 2) and you can end up with liver failure for example. It is all about do the positives out way the negatives. Which with this vaccine, they massively do. Its sad some people have died from blood clots, but from what I've read this is in line, if not below, the normal. Is it something like 40 cases out of 17 million (don't quote me on those exact numbers) It is insignificant, I'd rather take my chances with a blood clot than getting covid and passing it on to my loved ones any day of the week. |
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Mar 17, 2021 14:53:23 GMT
It's so unsafe that they're now threatening to block exports of it - again! They're having nightmare over there aren't they. That's an EU matter. It's not the EU expressing concerns, it's just some nations within it and some outside of it (e.g. Norway). Also, nobody as far as I can see has said it's unsafe - just that the evidence is unclear and further research may be needed. I suspect they are being overly cautious but I feel it's important to understand the issue as I feel an unhealthily sweeping "us and them" mentality is beginning to creep into this debate. You can't get more "us and them" than threatening to block exports - and this isn't the first time! |
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LOCKDOWN
Mar 17, 2021 15:10:34 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Mar 17, 2021 15:10:34 GMT
It's so unsafe that they're now threatening to block exports of it - again! They're having nightmare over there aren't they. That's an EU matter. It's not the EU expressing concerns, it's just some nations within it and some outside of it (e.g. Norway). Also, nobody as far as I can see has said it's unsafe - just that the evidence is unclear and further research may be needed. I suspect they are being overly cautious but I feel it's important to understand the issue as I feel an unhealthily sweeping "us and them" mentality is beginning to creep into this debate. Don’t let facts get in the way of right-wing tabloid sensationalism from some on here. |
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Mar 17, 2021 15:40:26 GMT
That's an EU matter. It's not the EU expressing concerns, it's just some nations within it and some outside of it (e.g. Norway). Also, nobody as far as I can see has said it's unsafe - just that the evidence is unclear and further research may be needed. I suspect they are being overly cautious but I feel it's important to understand the issue as I feel an unhealthily sweeping "us and them" mentality is beginning to creep into this debate. Don’t let facts get in the way of right-wing tabloid sensationalism from some on here. Bit defensive there Frank, has Ursula got some dirt on you or something? |
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Mar 17, 2021 16:39:30 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Mar 17, 2021 16:39:30 GMT
Not at all, was merely pointing out the pants-wetting sensationalism from some of our Daily Heil/The Scum headline writers.
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Mar 17, 2021 17:09:54 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Mar 17, 2021 17:09:54 GMT
The NHS will face a “significant” reduction in vaccine supplies for the whole of April, it’s been announced.
A cut in the weekly supply of available vaccines from the manufacturers.
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Post by Lobster on Mar 17, 2021 17:10:43 GMT
That's an EU matter. It's not the EU expressing concerns, it's just some nations within it and some outside of it (e.g. Norway). Also, nobody as far as I can see has said it's unsafe - just that the evidence is unclear and further research may be needed. I suspect they are being overly cautious but I feel it's important to understand the issue as I feel an unhealthily sweeping "us and them" mentality is beginning to creep into this debate. You can't get more "us and them" than threatening to block exports - and this isn't the first time! I don't disagree that the EU's approach seems clumsy and a little vindictive, but it's nothing to do with the AstroZeneca debate. Belgium, the country we most associate with the EU, is still using it. My point is that we have a bit of a habit in this country of thinking that if Germany, France or whoever does something, it's all about "the EU", and this obscures rational decision making. I doubt any other European country does this on the same scale we do. |
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LOCKDOWN
Mar 18, 2021 7:22:56 GMT
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Post by Lobster on Mar 18, 2021 7:22:56 GMT
The NHS will face a “significant” reduction in vaccine supplies for the whole of April, it’s been announced. A cut in the weekly supply of available vaccines from the manufacturers. Held up in India apparently. That'll be the EU's fault as well then! A lot of supplies seem to have oddly been held up, gone missing or not materialised during this crisis. This is remeniscent of the early PPE shortages, where it turned out that supplies we were told were on their way had only just been requested and were still on a plane in Turkey. And if I remember rightly, they turned out not to be up to NHS standards anyway and had to be returned. Perhaps not surprising when the Health Secretary has been found to have broken the law in his handling of Covid contracts, and is still in his job for some reason. We're cool with that sort of thing these days, it seems. |
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Mar 18, 2021 8:05:52 GMT
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Post by Firestick Frank on Mar 18, 2021 8:05:52 GMT
Said it before, this entire pandemic has been an absolute wet dream for their money laundering ideology.
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Deleted
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Mar 18, 2021 8:31:39 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2021 8:31:39 GMT
I thought the vaccine was grown rather than manufactured and the amount of doses produced was dependant on the growth of the cultures produced. Maybe I've got it wrong but I'm sure some of our resident scientists will correct me.
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LOCKDOWN
Mar 18, 2021 9:22:00 GMT
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Post by lincolnexile on Mar 18, 2021 9:22:00 GMT
India’s vaccine manufacturers meeting their own demand before supplying others, makes sense really.
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Post by eyeswideopen on Mar 18, 2021 9:35:53 GMT
The roll out of the vaccine has been a huge success story for the UK, in an otherwise shambolic handling of the pandemic by this Government.
Some EU countries however have handled the pandemic better than us, but have been slow in their vaccination roll out.
IMHO a lot of this is a smokescreen to mask the fact they are miles behind a country that's has been well publicised in being slow to lock down, too quick to ease, slow to lock down again etc etc.
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LOCKDOWN
Mar 18, 2021 9:51:29 GMT
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Post by cityboy5705 on Mar 18, 2021 9:51:29 GMT
I see the dead Parrott that is the EU (I voted remain but regret it by the way) is warning the UK over supply issues well as we have bought and paid for the vaccine rollout we can take them to court beat them before it's convenient that India is getting blamed
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