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Post by Hannibal on Aug 26, 2018 6:00:31 GMT
Got a feeling that the team that starts the season may not be the team that finishes it? We have been really ppoor for 18 months and the scale of the re-building job has become apparent.Maybe a season of consolidation and re-building is neccesary . I think we somehow have to retain our place in this league with these managers and reassess in the summer.
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Aug 26, 2018 6:17:18 GMT
Got a feeling that the team that starts the season may not be the team that finishes it? We have been really ppoor for 18 months and the scale of the re-building job has become apparent.Maybe a season of consolidation and re-building is neccesary . Consolidation is definitely necessary and I am staggered that anybody would expect anything more given what's gone on over the last 18 months.
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Post by midfieldgeneral on Aug 26, 2018 6:29:39 GMT
I would also be inclined to give the youngsters a go. Get Moran Thompson Lloyd Marsh Hughes Brown in. They cant be any worse and would give some of the established players a kick up the arse.
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Post by tarvinblue on Aug 26, 2018 6:42:16 GMT
Got a feeling that the team that starts the season may not be the team that finishes it? We have been really ppoor for 18 months and the scale of the re-building job has become apparent.Maybe a season of consolidation and re-building is neccesary . Consolidation is definitely necessary and I am staggered that anybody would expect anything more given what's gone on over the last 18 months. The managers weren't talking like that in pre-season though. Their talk was about having a strong squad and being at the top end of the table. In fact, they openly criticised the talk of consolidation. Think they might have changed their minds on both those views now!
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Post by g1 on Aug 26, 2018 6:46:11 GMT
I must be the only person who thought Mahon needed to be replaced, there is just no end product from him. If getting the ball and cutting inside every time without finding a forward ball is good then I stand corrected 😂 have to agree too many tricks not enough endeavor from mahon
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Post by tarvinblue on Aug 26, 2018 6:51:08 GMT
I must be the only person who thought Mahon needed to be replaced, there is just no end product from him. If getting the ball and cutting inside every time without finding a forward ball is good then I stand corrected 😂 have to agree too many tricks not enough endeavor from mahon It is the same old with Mahon. No pace but can beat a man, then either tries to go back and beat him again or gives the ball away. People only get excited about him because he beats a man. When was the last time he delivered any form of end product?
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Post by g1 on Aug 26, 2018 6:51:32 GMT
Shenton, Smalley, Pritchard, Waters, Stopforth are nowhere near good enough for this level in terms of ability. Pritchard and Grand at times today were embarrassing with their lack of effort to track back. Livesey reminds me of John McCombe - was probably good a couple of years ago but is past it now. Don't really know where we go from here as we have a lack of quality and lack of pace all over the park. The Salford boys can't just go and demand cash to bring in players and they said before the Spennymoor game they were happy with the squad. We aren't entitled to win each week but we are entitled to look tactically competent. What is our shape on/off the ball? What is our approach? We didn't even know who was taking corners second half. For that reason alone fans can only assume a lack of proper preparation. It was a poor reaction to the shocking showing at Blyth. Telford relaxed second half but we offered no real threat to worry them. The character in the squad worries me - that was one thing we were guaranteed by the management. However, the sympathy hugs at full time with the same contingent who had abused them for 90 minutes was pathetic. I agree on four of them players I think stopforth ain't bad just has a headless chicken mentality but puts the effort in
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Post by g1 on Aug 26, 2018 6:54:12 GMT
have to agree too many tricks not enough endeavor from mahon It is the same old with Mahon. No pace but can beat a man, then either tries to go back and beat him again or gives the ball away. People only get excited about him because he beats a man. When was the last time he delivered any form of end product? exactly there is too sentiment towards mahon second gets the ball does a turn player falls shouting get forward passes backwards that's not a threat young Lloyd came on beats a man wins a corner that's more effort
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Post by Hannibal on Aug 26, 2018 6:57:26 GMT
have to agree too many tricks not enough endeavor from mahon It is the same old with Mahon. No pace but can beat a man, then either tries to go back and beat him again or gives the ball away. People only get excited about him because he beats a man. When was the last time he delivered any form of end product? Barnsley FA Cup
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Post by Hannibal on Aug 26, 2018 7:08:04 GMT
On a positive note we're still undefeated at home.
I never thought that to get Fortress Deva it would just have to be flooded.
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Post by johny9 on Aug 26, 2018 7:35:42 GMT
Having been to 3 out of the 4 games so far this season which I know we are still in the very early days but in my opinion the Full backs are poor , Smalley was lost in 3 at the back system and yesterday didn’t seem to support the attacks enough or when he did didn’t deliver ( took an awful corner 2 nd half that just rolled across the floor to their man at near post ) he isnt physical or seems a particular good defender so we need an improvement there . Pritchard is too lightweight and the same as Smalley in the sense he isn’t particularly good at attacking or defending and his delivery on set pieces is crap . We need a centre forward to partner Dudley and it’s crucial our set piece delivery has to improve ! We seen with England over the summer how important they can be ! Another thing that concerns me is we don’t look a physically strong team yet again . With this 2 week break and all the new players and managers it will take time and I’m sure we will improve . On another note really didn’t like a section of our fans behaviour yesterday , a lot of it is built up frustration over the last few seasons I know and yes I also booed at half time as the performance wasn’t good enough but giving abuse to our own goalie after 15/20 mins ?? shouting for the managers head and decking the v’s to them after 4 games ?? Giving Morley’s mum abuse in the stands ?? Granted she shouldn’t have got involved in filming the fans but it was all embarrassing at times
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Post by paulie on Aug 26, 2018 7:37:08 GMT
Consolidation is definitely necessary and I am staggered that anybody would expect anything more given what's gone on over the last 18 months. The managers weren't talking like that in pre-season though. Their talk was about having a strong squad and being at the top end of the table. In fact, they openly criticised the talk of consolidation. Think they might have changed their minds on both those views now! In fairness the managers aren't going to come out and say we are expecting a long hard struggle this season. They have just tried to drum up enthusiasm and give out the spiel to get a few more season ticket sales. As posters above have said, I dont look at the table till after 10 matches. We had a decent start, freak result against Blyth, no game for 2 weeks then played a high flying Telford away.
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Post by terry63 on Aug 26, 2018 7:42:30 GMT
Fairly sure that training runournis utter cr*p because we lost 1-8 and everyone loves a rumour. Anyway, a quick point I wanted to make is that we slated some of last years squad: Richards, White, Udoh all included, but they’re scoring goals in this league and finding success. Some aren’t of course, but I tell you now I’d have Udoh and Richards over Mahon and Smalley (striker) even if he’s not played. 'Fairly sure that training runournis utter cr*p because we lost 1-8 and everyone loves a rumour' Nothing cr*p about it; It's not a rumour, it's a fact they train 2 nights a week for 2 hours in Chester. Big difference between full and part time and it impacts a lot on player recruitment. It's definitely a disadvantage as i'm sure most part time clubs will agree but you can have success but its going to take time.
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Aug 26, 2018 7:49:31 GMT
Fairly sure that training runournis utter cr*p because we lost 1-8 and everyone loves a rumour. Anyway, a quick point I wanted to make is that we slated some of last years squad: Richards, White, Udoh all included, but they’re scoring goals in this league and finding success. Some aren’t of course, but I tell you now I’d have Udoh and Richards over Mahon and Smalley (striker) even if he’s not played. 'Fairly sure that training runournis utter cr*p because we lost 1-8 and everyone loves a rumour' Nothing cr*p about it; It's not a rumour, it's a fact they train 2 nights a week for 2 hours in Chester. Big difference between full and part time and it impacts a lot on player recruitment. It's definitely a disadvantage as i'm sure most part time clubs will agree but you can have success but its going to take time. We trained for two nights a week for two hours throughout Neil Young's tenure. With our budget it's probably an advantage to have better part-time players than young ex-FL cast offs and over the hill journeymen on full-time deals.
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Post by devadiva on Aug 26, 2018 8:37:28 GMT
I must be the only person who thought Mahon needed to be replaced, there is just no end product from him. If getting the ball and cutting inside every time without finding a forward ball is good then I stand corrected 😂 Absolutely correct. He would beat 3/4 players with the usual jinks inside (when does he ever go outside?) but 9 times out of 10 he then passed the ball sideways or back after that. That lost all impetus/advantage he created and other than the passes back they all went to a Telford player. The quality of his output today was awful i thought. The attack was far too narrow as well today. There was no overlaps down the wings that would have stretched the Telford defence. We just let them stay compact and let 3 of them mark our one striker. He didn’t stand a chance. This is all basic stuff.
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Post by bitbbh on Aug 26, 2018 8:49:34 GMT
So we ditched the 3 5 2 formation and started the game with a 4 1 4 1 formation with Matty Hughes playing widest right of Craig Mahon in a cental role along side Stopforth with Burton sitting in front of the back four. With Dudley playing a lone striker role. In the second half we switched Mahon and Hughes over and started to see some success.
Now i'm no manager but ive seen plenty of football over the years and i cant understan dhow Bernard and Jono and Marcus Bignot before them thought Craig Mahon is a central midfielder?
Why did we not play a 4 4 2 formation with Hughes up along side Dudley with Mahon wide right and push Burton up along side Stopforth to balance the team up and get the best out of the players we had available?
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Post by Harry Lime on Aug 26, 2018 8:59:37 GMT
The effort is there but sadly some of them just don’t have enough quality and you can also see their is a lack of cohesion which is perhaps to be expected given the turnover in players. The first goal......Shenton hacks it straight at their guy but makes amends with a good save/tackle, then rather then send it out the ground Burton poked it straight at their player and it’s back in the box and in the net. A goal made by us. Second goal......2 headers won by their players leaves Udoh nicely positioned to slot home. We simply have to clear our lines in those situations. Another goal of our doing. Third goal.....after it took an age who should take our corner, it turns out to be a crap corner and we get caught on the counter without enough men to defend. Game over. Learnt a few things today. The full backs aren’t good enough, too lightweight and terrible delivery whether it’s from set pieces or in open play. Stopforth really doesn’t have any quality on the ball, he runs a lot and puts some tackles in but against the top teams this won’t be enough. Matty Hughes looks lost, didn’t seem to know where he was playing. Waters is lightweight and sadly out of his depth. Dudley is not a lone striker and badly needs a strike partner. Telford were quicker and sharper than us, but will cut us some slack on that given the enforced break we have had. Frustratingly we were starting to ask some questions in the second half but the substitution of Mahon absolutely killed any momentum we were building. He looked baffled, most fans around me looked baffled, and the players on the pitch were baffled too. He was just coming into the game and looked our main threat, and no disrespect to Thomson but he isn’t the same style of player and the tactical shift didn’t work at all. The managers take responsibility for the poor subs, and not setting instructions for who takes corners.....that was truly embarrassing. Clutching at straws but thought after a poor start that Burton grew into the game and think him and Roberts could be an effective partnership. We badly missed Gary’s ability on the ball today, too many players scared to pass the ball properly. The levels of abuse were shocking though. I expected that there would be a bit of stick but Jesus that was bad. We are 4 games in and ok it’s not great at the moment but can’t we just show a bit of patience? I’m not absolving the managers of responsibility but they are probably finding that some of these lads might not be what they thought, and that tactically it’s not right at the moment. At least they aren’t stubborn enough to persist with the 3-5-2 of the previous games that looked shaky, but what we saw today didn’t look the answer either. Not sure if it was just a case of some grown men not being able to take their ale, but there were some that were a real embarrassment. Welcome to Chester lads Bern and Johnno, where grown men will call you useless c***ts and tell you to fk off back to Salford after four games.....real classy club us, Very good post. Agree with nearly all that. Disagree about Mahon though. He was jinking about and looking as if he has ability. Then he gives the ball away, misplaces passes and is too slow to actually beat his man. I'd move him out on loan. We again look slow all over the pitch. No pace and power. I think that's the main problem. We're too slow to put the other team under pressure and not enough quality with the ball. There's not enough quality in the new players, but with the right blend and formation they're proven in this league. I'd move Mahon out on loan. Don't see what Hughes gives us. We need a target man up front to keep the ball and get us up the pitch. Look at the difference their front two made. Without them, Telford wouldn't be half the team they looked. We also need that pace and mobility in midfield. Roberts has the ability, but tends to drop deeper as the game goes on. A 442 with 3 fairly central and a wide player, with 2 up front. WedW look ok. Regarding our 'supporters', it's pretty disgraceful at times. They get the team they deserve. Whatever they thought of the performance, it wasnt a lack of effort that cost us the game. Some players are used to playing in front of 300. Getting abuse from their own supporters to that level is hardly going to help, is it. Yes. You are entitled to give your 'opinion'. But hurling abuse isnt giving your opinion. It's giving abuse. Being realistic we thought we'd more likely be battling relegation, than up at the top. The new managers have us hope we may do more. Expectations were raised too high. Let's dig in together and turn this club round. We need to support our team and managers now. Especially with a clump of home games coming up.
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Post by tonya on Aug 26, 2018 9:24:51 GMT
Pretty trajic if our ambition at the start of a new season, especially at this level, is to avoid relegation. Is the club now in a worse financial position when Young stormrd the league and expectations were high?
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Post by btb on Aug 26, 2018 9:50:03 GMT
terrible. Absolutely, terrible. Sunday league managers. A Sunday league goalkeeper. The captain was awful. The striker was shown up by a 17 year old sub. It's going to be a long long season and I can't see these two lasting until Christmas. As for the game. First half was pitiful. Second half after the damage was done we had a go to be fair. Credit to the fans who got behind them. I did in parts but when you're standing there waiting for somebody to decide who's going to take a corner it's hard work.
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Post by midfieldgeneral on Aug 26, 2018 9:52:17 GMT
From the shambles of the last 18 months, it was always going to be a struggle to re-build the team and the club. It is not easy to build a team from scratch, unless you are a miricle worker. Like I said the team that starts the season, may not be the team, that ends it. Although, I would expect us to become more competitive as the season progresses. And it is not a reflection of the level of ambition, just a reflection of where we are at the moment. It looks like Bernard and Johnno's atempt to superimpose Salford City onto Chester F.C., may need a re-think.
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Post by Churton Blue on Aug 26, 2018 9:53:04 GMT
It was about this time last year we all realised we'd signed a really poor, unbalanced squad and - whilst I don't think it's as bad this time - there are definitely those alarm bells ringing again. I actually think if you took out the first 20 minutes, it was a relatively even game. Telford are a good side and they knew full well we'd be rusty and low on confidence early on and hammered the ball at us and got men around the big target man. It worked! First goal was a joke, the second was equally poor from Livesey I thought. What nobody had the ability to do, was simply put their foot on the ball and hold back the tide. It was clear they were rampant, but we just kept giving them the ball back to knock long in behind. Second half, we did better but didn't make their goalie make a save. It was just a nothing performance start to finish. We are desperately missing Shaun Tuton, or any other striker, to play with Dudley. He's lost on his own up front - you can see he's a good player and will get goals but we're just launching the ball up at him. I think we looked more comfortable with 4 at the back, but we just looked like we had too many square pegs in round holes to compete today. Waters showed he's a good footballer, but I don't know if he's physical enough to do the job at the back. Mahon playing centrally just doesn't work. We were desperate for a proper attacking midfielder to support Dudley and we've just got to hope George Green is exactly that. Big negatives for me were Livesey, who I don't think can play alongside Grand in a 2. Grand seems more mobile and vocal out of the two, but I'd be looking to get Moran in for Livesey. Too slow otherwise. Also, I really hope I'm wrong but I see nothing in Pritchard whatsoever. He's lightweight, ineffective and given his set pieces were lauded when he arrived, I've been disappointed with them too. Positives, if you can call them that, were Moran looked okay, Burton showed glimpses of what he could do and Matty Thomson was industrious when he came on and looks comfortable at the level. It's been a strange start, even by our standards. We need to stick together and trust that AJ and BM are going to pick a system, stick with it and ask Mr Murphy very nicely if he'll give us a decent striker. Due to holidays my first League match of the season and this is the nearest to my thoughts on yesterday - Big Si's comments are very good as well.
For me the team that started yesterday was 5 players short of being a mid table team. Two or three of those players are probably at the club already.
Worryingly we lack threat when attacking and are very suspect in defence, a bad combination.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2018 9:55:25 GMT
According to Matt Hughes twitter his wife gave birth in the early hours of Saturday morning. Maybe the reason he was taken off early.
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Post by btb on Aug 26, 2018 10:03:34 GMT
According to Matt Hughes twitter his wife gave birth in the early hours of Saturday morning. Maybe the reason he was taken off early. I thought he was one of the better players. Lucky he didn't get sent off but he did put a shift of sorts in. On reflection I can't fault the effort to be honest but as said above there's probably four or five who just aren't good enough for this division. But they've played for ramsbottom so they're in!
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Post by South Wirral Blue on Aug 26, 2018 10:10:10 GMT
Consolidation is definitely necessary and I am staggered that anybody would expect anything more given what's gone on over the last 18 months. The managers weren't talking like that in pre-season though. Their talk was about having a strong squad and being at the top end of the table. In fact, they openly criticised the talk of consolidation. Think they might have changed their minds on both those views now! Definitely! Although SB is right to say consolidation was the main aim this season, I don't think I'm wrong in saying many of us had started to quietly hope of a possible play-off push. Given what I saw pre-season (I should know better by now) I certainly considered it. With that it mind it's easy to see why frustration boiled over yesterday - not that I'm excusing some of the reported behaviour. Fans are thinking that not only is a decent season looking pretty unlikely with this side, even basic consolidation now feels like a bit of an ask! Early days of course but sometimes in football you don't need to wait 10 games to see the glaringly obvious about certain players.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2018 10:27:49 GMT
Shenton, Smalley, Pritchard, Waters, Stopforth are nowhere near good enough for this level in terms of ability. Pritchard and Grand at times today were embarrassing with their lack of effort to track back. Livesey reminds me of John McCombe - was probably good a couple of years ago but is past it now. Don't really know where we go from here as we have a lack of quality and lack of pace all over the park. The Salford boys can't just go and demand cash to bring in players and they said before the Spennymoor game they were happy with the squad. We aren't entitled to win each week but we are entitled to look tactically competent. What is our shape on/off the ball? What is our approach? We didn't even know who was taking corners second half. For that reason alone fans can only assume a lack of proper preparation. It was a poor reaction to the shocking showing at Blyth. Telford relaxed second half but we offered no real threat to worry them. The character in the squad worries me - that was one thing we were guaranteed by the management. However, the sympathy hugs at full time with the same contingent who had abused them for 90 minutes was pathetic. I may be totally wrong but I got the feeling that the FT hugfest was a "clever" ploy by the Dynamic Duo to defuse what could have been a volatile situation as the "players" left the field!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2018 10:31:19 GMT
Pretty trajic if our ambition at the start of a new season, especially at this level, is to avoid relegation. Is the club now in a worse financial position when Young stormrd the league and expectations were high? Well said.
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Post by Jack on Aug 26, 2018 10:35:34 GMT
Udoh looked a player yesterday too.
Exactly the type of player we could use. Physical, direct with pace to burn. On the basis of yesterday, could see him making Telford some £.
I think for all of his flaws, Bignot had a decent eye for a player.
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Post by Charfield Blue on Aug 26, 2018 10:41:16 GMT
McQuilkin was superb for them as well. He ripped us apart last year in the FA Cup whilst at Kiddy and he did it again yesterday.
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Post by Frank Owen’s Paintbrush on Aug 26, 2018 11:12:54 GMT
Superb picture of this forums administrator on the Chronicle's Bernard interview article.
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Post by Imperial on Aug 26, 2018 11:39:11 GMT
I was incredibly excited when we appointed B&J, just won the league, experience of working on a shoestring etc. That seems a distant memory now.
Yeah we were beaten by the better side yesterday but that’s no excuse for a lack of shape, players not knowing who’s on set pieces, clearances repeatedly dropping to white shirts.
I properly lost my rag yesterday. For those who are criticising the abuse & then also the love in, did it not occur that the players coming over & apologising might have been what calmed things down?
They will of course have my support again next week. Players & managers.
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