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Post by cheshireblue on Nov 20, 2018 22:03:31 GMT
The wording on that publication is at times damning. This one stood out for me:
You also said that you had been the chairman of a local football club and of its social club, from which you had derived an income, but that you had subsequently sold your interest in the football club and its social club.
We would have been dead by Christmas.
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Post by Deva Chanter on Nov 20, 2018 23:02:30 GMT
Surely all this goes to show the perils of being "a fan owned club". The board are all volunteers without the necessary qualifications to do the job professionally. Not intended as a criticism of these fans who have taken up the mantle of running our club, and in my opinion do it well. A club that is run by a professional board would have professional (Paid)PR person in post along with other paid officials. We have no money for this type of person so let's say well done to them for taking action when the facts became apparent. But it also shows the beauty of a fan-owned club - that a fan, or owner, has been able to do the club's job for them and carry out a basic internet search of the individual concerned. The actions of that fan have meant that the club had no option but to remove Jones from his post. This just wouldn't happen at a non fan-owned club. The owner could appoint whoever they like - I'm sure we all remember some of the shithouses that Stephen Vaughan employed at the club. I think one of the only good things to come out of the crisis earlier this year is that it has put all of us, as fans and owners, on our toes in scrutinising the actions of the club and ensuring that they don't get given free reign to do as they please. Volunteers or not, they're accountable to us and its good to see the fans enforcing that accountability. In saying that, I'm still waiting for somebody to get back to me as to why minutes from board meetings haven't been published for months....
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Post by avfo on Nov 20, 2018 23:21:03 GMT
The wording on that publication is at times damning. This one stood out for me: You also said that you had been the chairman of a local football club and of its social club, from which you had derived an income, but that you had subsequently sold your interest in the football club and its social club.
We would have been dead by Christmas. It's like a variation on pick a card, in this case pick a paragraph, any paragraph - You failed to reply to the FSAâs requests for information and documents you failed to cooperate with the FSA, and your failure to cooperate is material as it has hindered the FSAâs investigation into serious alleged misconduct on your part. You did not use, for example, a standard checklist or pro-forma to ensure a minimum standard of checking or consistency across the business. you took no action to implement the compliance consultantâs recommendations you failed to obtain sufficient information about the customersâ personal and financial circumstances You also failed to take reasonable steps to make and retain appropriate records you failed to provide a reasonable explanation as to why you had entered false dates on fact finds, why you had asked customers to sign and back date the fact finds you inflated your income (your stated share of the net profit from the Partnership exceeded the total net profit of the firm You declared your mortgage on Address A but you falsely failed to disclose your mortgage with Lender A, unsecured debts of ÂŁ20,000 and hire purchase agreements for two cars totalling approximately ÂŁ100,000. You falsely stated that you were at that time living in that property you were compelled by the FSA to attend an interview and answer questions. In that interview, in response to the first question put to you, you falsely stated that your home address was Address A You also falsely stated your income you claimed that your âincome for last trading yearâ (July 2004) was ÂŁ170,000 whereas the record of your declared taxable income was ÂŁ55,383.63 you stated that the use of Address A was âWholly Owner-Occupied Residentialâ whereas it was let to tenants in answer to question 9 âWhat is your shareholdingâ, you answered â100%â when at the time of signing the declaration you owned the business jointly with your partner you failed to disclose your unsecured debts and hire purchase agreements You submitted these applications to lenders even though they were based on information which you knew to be incorrect or misleading you were knowingly involved in the submission of false applications you misled the FSA in interview about where you lived You also created false sales documents You have further demonstrated your lack of integrity by submitting fraudulent applications to mortgage lenders, as a result of which you benefitted personally your decisions or actions, or both, were deliberate actions taken by you without concern for the risk posed to customers and lenders. the FSA considers that you pose a serious risk to customers and to confidence in the financial system. You failed to be open and honest with the FSA's investigation etc, etc
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Post by bagoftricks on Nov 20, 2018 23:21:51 GMT
Good spot Durdy should make you head of HR
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Post by avfo on Nov 20, 2018 23:56:10 GMT
Surely all this goes to show the perils of being "a fan owned club". The board are all volunteers without the necessary qualifications to do the job professionally. Not intended as a criticism of these fans who have taken up the mantle of running our club, and in my opinion do it well. A club that is run by a professional board would have professional (Paid)PR person in post along with other paid officials. We have no money for this type of person so let's say well done to them for taking action when the facts became apparent. But it also shows the beauty of a fan-owned club - that a fan, or owner, has been able to do the club's job for them and carry out a basic internet search of the individual concerned. The actions of that fan have meant that the club had no option but to remove Jones from his post. This just wouldn't happen at a non fan-owned club. The owner could appoint whoever they like - I'm sure we all remember some of the shithouses that Stephen Vaughan employed at the club.
I think one of the only good things to come out of the crisis earlier this year is that it has put all of us, as fans and owners, on our toes in scrutinising the actions of the club and ensuring that they don't get given free reign to do as they please. Volunteers or not, they're accountable to us and its good to see the fans enforcing that accountability. In saying that, I'm still waiting for somebody to get back to me as to why minutes from board meetings haven't been published for months.... Would agree with all of this, although having seen a copy of last years board meetings minutes, it does stand out that on at least three occasions prior to January 2018 the financial officer made reference to attendances and associated secondary spending being lower than budgeted for - yet how many if any raised this and the possible consequences to the clubs finances at subsequent CFU meetings? Co ownership comes with a degree of responsibility - it really is your football club, as owners your (in)action will ultimately decide its future.
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Post by bing on Nov 21, 2018 0:01:20 GMT
Well spotted Durdy. I believe that it had been flagged up by someone in the club - so we have a couple of Columbos in our midst!
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3mm
Full Member
Posts: 155
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Post by 3mm on Nov 21, 2018 0:06:00 GMT
Reading through all this, employing him was a bad error of judgement by one or more of the people in power at the club.
The new general manager has gone, quite rightly, looking at his history. But whoever made the decision to give him the job is also culpable.
How could they possibly miss or overlook it all? Not good enough, I'm afraid.
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Post by chesterblueboy on Nov 21, 2018 0:27:23 GMT
I do know, from personal experience, that full DBS checks are taking up to 6-8 weeks to come through. It is fairly normal business practice for an employee to start work (even when there are Safeguarding Issues!) pending the result of these checks.
This is not an ideal scenario for any business and Iâm not sure what the current delays are being caused by (although I can guess that itâs down to a dramatic cut in budgets for the agencies feeding into this information!). The other option is not to have anybody starting work until these DBS checks are done, which is not practical.
My guess is that his DBS check is in the system and this âissueâ would shortly have come to light đĄ!!!
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Post by avfo on Nov 21, 2018 0:36:26 GMT
Reading through all this, employing him was a bad error of judgement by one or more of the people in power at the club.
The new general manager has gone, quite rightly, looking at his history. But whoever made the decision to give him the job is also culpable.
How could they possibly miss or overlook it all? Not good enough, I'm afraid.
Ultimately it was a procedural failure and that is something you as an owner can influence. Help your board by making sure they implement any necessary action that you as owners deem necessary - how many members resolutions submitted at agms since 2010?
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Post by Lobster on Nov 21, 2018 7:00:23 GMT
Something else to consider is that someone we now know to be a convicted fraudster with a history of considerable dishonesty has been given access to the clubâs offices, albeit for only 24 hours. With that in mind, I hope any passwords or security details he might have come into contact with have been changed.
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Post by Al on Nov 21, 2018 7:50:11 GMT
Reading through all this, employing him was a bad error of judgement by one or more of the people in power at the club.
The new general manager has gone, quite rightly, looking at his history. But whoever made the decision to give him the job is also culpable.
How could they possibly miss or overlook it all? Not good enough, I'm afraid.
Ultimately it was a procedural failure and that is something you as an owner can influence. Help your board by making sure they implement any necessary action that you as owners deem necessary - how many members resolutions submitted at agms since 2010? Would that be 0?
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Post by gone4eva on Nov 21, 2018 9:38:10 GMT
It is worth a cup of tea and reading that, in the context of thinking what this bloke would have been in charge of and have access to. I would imagine the rug is being lifted today and the brush being wheeled out rather than a more detailed fan update with promises of review and what has changed in processes. What about all major appointments have a X day public awareness method to allow such a crowdsourced examination. HR nightmare, but the above shows what is actually happening in the real world.
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Post by Cestrian1987 on Nov 21, 2018 9:55:25 GMT
Youâve got to laugh. Wrexham having the cheek to laugh at us over this when theyâve got a con on their board. đđ
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Post by Hannibal on Nov 21, 2018 10:03:52 GMT
Think you were the one with the 'usual bollocks' on here, going to apologise? Yes. Not to precious to say it either. Thereâs always a first time for something to be right on here! What kind of apology is that. Are you a goat?
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Post by Hannibal on Nov 21, 2018 10:21:04 GMT
Reading through all this, employing him was a bad error of judgement by one or more of the people in power at the club.
The new general manager has gone, quite rightly, looking at his history. But whoever made the decision to give him the job is also culpable.
How could they possibly miss or overlook it all? Not good enough, I'm afraid.
Can we afford a head to roll, or conversely call we afford to overlook this monumental cock-up.
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Post by bing on Nov 21, 2018 10:42:35 GMT
Is it too simplistic to say that 'people power' has prevailed here.
A mistake was made, people pointed out the mistake to nip anything in the bud.
Isn't that a screaming endorsement for more people to get involved by applying to go on the board / help with working groups?
I'm not suggesting Durdy applies for the board - but let's say he was involved in this instance - this wouldn't even be an issue.
We need all the help we can get - not asking for heads to roll!
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Post by rcb on Nov 21, 2018 12:00:26 GMT
Is it too simplistic to say that 'people power' has prevailed here. A mistake was made, people pointed out the mistake to nip anything in the bud. Isn't that a screaming endorsement for more people to get involved by applying to go on the board / help with working groups? I'm not suggesting Durdy applies for the board - but let's say he was involved in this instance - this wouldn't even be an issue. We need all the help we can get - not asking for heads to roll! I agree that help is needed, and what happened with the General Manager appointment is proof that what currently exists at Chester FC isnât working. Whether appointing more board members will subscribe to the proverb âmany hands make light workâ, or âtoo many cooks spoil the brothâ is anyoneâs guess. I feel this is the worst single decision that has happened at the club since it reformed and urgent professional help is needed. Iâm not blaming any of the board members, as it is what it is, but it simply isnât working. Iâm 66, retired and live 60 miles away, before any of the usual suspects start with their now too familiar comments. Whoever gets the General Manager post will have to be scrupulously clean and will operate with minimal scrutiny. If it takes professional recruitment consultants to do the job properly, then so be it. Nearly twelve months on since the club was in the last chance saloon it appears that little has changed.
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Post by icomeinpeace on Nov 21, 2018 12:17:44 GMT
Yes. Not to precious to say it either. Thereâs always a first time for something to be right on here! What kind of apology is that. Are you a goat? What exactly do you want? Apology given. And definitely not a goat. Worst insult ever...
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Post by Al on Nov 21, 2018 12:24:47 GMT
I wouldn't say the worst decision we've made. The worst decisions were appointing and then letting Maguire have a free reign and then the 2yr deal to Mccarthy. This was potentially the worst decision, but thankfully the board have acted swiftly once this came to light and dismissed him.
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Post by Frank Owenâs Paintbrush on Nov 21, 2018 12:30:47 GMT
Happy with the detailed insight given in AM's explanation to Dave Powell.
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Post by Lobster on Nov 21, 2018 12:38:11 GMT
It is worth a cup of tea and reading that, in the context of thinking what this bloke would have been in charge of and have access to. I would imagine the rug is being lifted today and the brush being wheeled out rather than a more detailed fan update with promises of review and what has changed in processes. What about all major appointments have a X day public awareness method to allow such a crowdsourced examination. HR nightmare, but the above shows what is actually happening in the real world.
Worth noting as well that this is a separate incident to the one Sychdyn Blue found that seems to have landed him a two-year jail sentence for colluding with that Michael Creamer guy. And take a look at some of the stuff Google rakes up about Creamer.
Perhaps Jones has cleaned up his act and put his past behind him - there doesn't appear to be any dirt on him in the last 7-8 years - but I'd rather not chance it.
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Post by Lobster on Nov 21, 2018 12:41:35 GMT
I wouldn't say the worst decision we've made. The worst decisions were appointing and then letting Maguire have a free reign and then the 2yr deal to Mccarthy. This was potentially the worst decision, but thankfully the board have acted swiftly once this came to light and dismissed him. Agree with that, although what's worrying is that haven't been burned once with Maguire, so little care was taken in appointing what is effectively his successor.
Also, one thing I would say about Maguire is I do not believe he was anything worse than bad at his job. Stephen Jones, meanwhile, appears to be a criminal.
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Post by Al on Nov 21, 2018 13:03:51 GMT
I wouldn't say the worst decision we've made. The worst decisions were appointing and then letting Maguire have a free reign and then the 2yr deal to Mccarthy. This was potentially the worst decision, but thankfully the board have acted swiftly once this came to light and dismissed him. Agree with that, although what's worrying is that haven't been burned once with Maguire, so little care was taken in appointing what is effectively his successor.
Also, one thing I would say about Maguire is I do not believe he was anything worse than bad at his job. Stephen Jones, meanwhile, appears to be a criminal.
He was woefully inept, and had shockingly bad working practices that should have been challenged way before we got to the point we did. Fortunately, at least from what I've seen and heard, commercially we're doing OK at the moment. Although, we can always strive to do more, and be better. No doubt questions will be, and need to be asked regards due diligence. We are in a delicate situation with 6 directors only on what should be a 10 man board. We cannot allow people to be hounded out over this unless there are CFU members out there who can dedicate themselves to a thankless role. Going by the lack of new blood standing at the AGM and lack of people applying for co-option to the board it suggests to me that this is the best we are currently going to get
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Post by chrizzyp on Nov 21, 2018 13:33:00 GMT
I wouldn't say the worst decision we've made. The worst decisions were appointing and then letting Maguire have a free reign and then the 2yr deal to Mccarthy. This was potentially the worst decision, but thankfully the board have acted swiftly once this came to light and dismissed him. mcarthy is doing a good job now isnt he
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Post by Al on Nov 21, 2018 13:38:07 GMT
I wouldn't say the worst decision we've made. The worst decisions were appointing and then letting Maguire have a free reign and then the 2yr deal to Mccarthy. This was potentially the worst decision, but thankfully the board have acted swiftly once this came to light and dismissed him. mcarthy is doing a good job now isnt he Is he? Or is Liam Watson doing a good job?
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Post by Matt on Nov 21, 2018 13:41:32 GMT
I wouldn't say the worst decision we've made. The worst decisions were appointing and then letting Maguire have a free reign and then the 2yr deal to Mccarthy. This was potentially the worst decision, but thankfully the board have acted swiftly once this came to light and dismissed him. mcarthy is doing a good job now isnt he A couple of results mean nothing. He's clueless. He's waiting to throw Watson under the bus to get the Job there. That's when the real fun will start. Southport have daft budget too. We all know how well he does with that.
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Post by chrizzyp on Nov 21, 2018 13:47:25 GMT
mcarthy is doing a good job now isnt he Is he? Or is Liam Watson doing a good job? jon is the brains of the operation i think
using his time with us binding his time to get back into manager role
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Post by hbomb on Nov 21, 2018 14:49:59 GMT
Is he? Or is Liam Watson doing a good job? jon is the brains of the operation i think
using his time with us binding his time to get back into manager role
Nothing special considering the budget and the expected promotion push. He was a decent number 2 to Burr here for a while as well. Letâs see where both clubs are in May.
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Post by rcb on Nov 21, 2018 15:07:56 GMT
With the thread title being New General Manager I really donât want to read about whatâs happening in Southport. Chester FC urgently need honest professional guidance and control under the stewardship of a knowledgeable football person. Even without his fraudulent background Stephen Jones was far from suitable, given his only past football knowledge revolved around a tinpot nonentity over ten years ago. How totally lacking in aspiration was that decision by our out of depth board members. Get help for Godâs sake.
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Post by Frank Owenâs Paintbrush on Nov 21, 2018 15:49:53 GMT
Even without his fraudulent background Stephen Jones was far from suitable, given his only past football knowledge revolved around a tinpot nonentity over ten years ago. How totally lacking in aspiration was that decision by our out of depth board members. Get help for Godâs sake. Do you happen to know who the other candidates were? If not, you're not in a place to comment on that for God's sake.
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