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Post by RioTheBallBag on May 5, 2017 15:35:29 GMT
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Post by Deva Chanter on May 5, 2017 19:05:09 GMT
RE-ELECT CHRIS MATHESON. The anachronism will be gone in 5 weeks then we start rebuilding. I believe Chris is a potential leader of the Labour Party Matheson might find it difficult to lead the party given he won't be an MP in 5 weeks time |
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Post by bluesince72 on May 5, 2017 23:58:08 GMT
Chris is an excellent local MP. The idiots are those supporting a hard Brexit. Little better are those ignoring policy and concentrating on personalities, Corbyn is a disorganised leader, but we are voting for a manefesto not an x-factor contestant! May is a socially awkward coward who will not debate, loses PMQS most weeks to someone she calls useless! Corbyn is a genuine principled politician that has been right on every important controversy since becoming an MP, that said, it is looking likely that New Ukip, the Tory party, are going to win the election with an increased majority, so unless the country comes to its senses, the Chester vote will make little national difference, its impact will be solely local. Issues that matter in Chester include Fracking, this environmental disaster in waiting theatens OUR city and its environs, our local council can do little to protect us, as the overruling of a planning rejection in Lancashire proves, Labour are pledged to ban it across the UK. The NHS; with the very future of the Countess under threat of relocation, added to the well known tactic of starve a public service of cash, point to the failures, while denying the real cause, then use them as an argument to invite in US health companies to carve it up for profit, to financialise the UKs greatest institution. Cui bono? The 1%! You can be certain that it wont be the 99% that is for sure. Then there is Brexit, Chester was a remain city, and many of us who voted Leave wanted a hard nosed economically realist Brexit that escapes from the neolib treaties, and investor protection 'trade' treaties, TTIP and CETA, BUT not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. We are leaving the Customs Union, for what? A WTO la la land utopia of trade deals around the globe. People should read what happened to Switzerland when it attempted to do a trade deal with China, it got strong armed. This is what Britain will face! ''The UK should focus on signing comprehensive and fair deals. In the China-Switzerland trade deal, as the much bigger partner, China has set the terms of trade. It is allowed more time to remove tariffs on Swiss goods –up to 15 years in some cases –than the Swiss, who have to let in Chinese goods tariff-free almost immediately. It is also limited in scope; it does not cover cars or financial services –two major export areas for the UK.'' www.cbi.org.uk/business-issues/uk-a...rade-deals-pdf/It makes me ashamed to be British when I see the way people have rushed to the hard Brexit barracades following the contrived 'row' between May and Junker, followed by the unnamed sources that claim the UK will face a large exit payment of up to 100 billion Euros, all pure speculation. But it has worked as intended, the people have been duped, and I believe the EU are in on it, they are in the pockets of corporations to the same degree as the Tories. The atmosphere reminds me of the overnight change in public opinion in 1983 after the Falklands War, but far worse. This xenophobic bile came from a small and unverified spat! Opinion polls were moving against May and her sloganised and cowardly campaign, then the 'row' and the nation goes mad. Locally and nationally everybody who is not a Tory or Ukip supporter MUST understand, Labour, New Labour, Lib Dem, Green, PC, SNP that they have to put aside tribal differences and vote for the candidate most likely to keep the Tories out. Hard Brexit will be a catastrophe, and a large Tory majority, Brexit aside, will be a government that will continue to enrich the corporate 1% further at the expense of the majority, it will stick with its extend and pretend economic policy, the 2008 was a blip mentality, in denial ..until the whole near zero interst rate debt roll over ponzi scheme collapses as it surely will, we just cannot predict when. I genuinely fear for our futures should the local election results pan out in the general election. We can only act locally as individuals, and hope the majority see the light. NB. Most of the above I also posted on old Deva Chat Forty years of failure: how to challenge the narrative of Hard BrexitJeremy Gilbert 24 April 2017 www.opendemocracy.net/uk/jeremy-gilbert/forty-years-of-failure-how-to-challenge-narrative-of-hard-brexit |
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Post by Deva Chanter on May 6, 2017 15:38:38 GMT
As good an MP he may be, I'd hope he's now regretting joining the other 171 idiots whose disloyalty caused a second Labour leadership election - subsequently damaging the party to an extent whereby Matheson made his own seat unwinnable. Oopsy. #karma
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Post by Hannibal on May 6, 2017 17:08:47 GMT
Chris is an excellent local MP. The idiots are those supporting a hard Brexit. Little better are those ignoring policy and concentrating on personalities, Corbyn is a disorganised leader, but we are voting for a manefesto not an x-factor contestant! May is a socially awkward coward who will not debate, loses PMQS most weeks to someone she calls useless! Corbyn is a genuine principled politician that has been right on every important controversy since becoming an MP, that said, it is looking likely that New Ukip, the Tory party, are going to win the election with an increased majority, so unless the country comes to its senses, the Chester vote will make little national difference, its impact will be solely local. Issues that matter in Chester include Fracking, this environmental disaster in waiting theatens OUR city and its environs, our local council can do little to protect us, as the overruling of a planning rejection in Lancashire proves, Labour are pledged to ban it across the UK. The NHS; with the very future of the Countess under threat of relocation, added to the well known tactic of starve a public service of cash, point to the failures, while denying the real cause, then use them as an argument to invite in US health companies to carve it up for profit, to financialise the UKs greatest institution. Cui bono? The 1%! You can be certain that it wont be the 99% that is for sure. Then there is Brexit, Chester was a remain city, and many of us who voted Leave wanted a hard nosed economically realist Brexit that escapes from the neolib treaties, and investor protection 'trade' treaties, TTIP and CETA, BUT not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. We are leaving the Customs Union, for what? A WTO la la land utopia of trade deals around the globe. People should read what happened to Switzerland when it attempted to do a trade deal with China, it got strong armed. This is what Britain will face! ''The UK should focus on signing comprehensive and fair deals. In the China-Switzerland trade deal, as the much bigger partner, China has set the terms of trade. It is allowed more time to remove tariffs on Swiss goods –up to 15 years in some cases –than the Swiss, who have to let in Chinese goods tariff-free almost immediately. It is also limited in scope; it does not cover cars or financial services –two major export areas for the UK.'' www.cbi.org.uk/business-issues/uk-a...rade-deals-pdf/It makes me ashamed to be British when I see the way people have rushed to the hard Brexit barracades following the contrived 'row' between May and Junker, followed by the unnamed sources that claim the UK will face a large exit payment of up to 100 billion Euros, all pure speculation. But it has worked as intended, the people have been duped, and I believe the EU are in on it, they are in the pockets of corporations to the same degree as the Tories. The atmosphere reminds me of the overnight change in public opinion in 1983 after the Falklands War, but far worse. This xenophobic bile came from a small and unverified spat! Opinion polls were moving against May and her sloganised and cowardly campaign, then the 'row' and the nation goes mad. Locally and nationally everybody who is not a Tory or Ukip supporter MUST understand, Labour, New Labour, Lib Dem, Green, PC, SNP that they have to put aside tribal differences and vote for the candidate most likely to keep the Tories out. Hard Brexit will be a catastrophe, and a large Tory majority, Brexit aside, will be a government that will continue to enrich the corporate 1% further at the expense of the majority, it will stick with its extend and pretend economic policy, the 2008 was a blip mentality, in denial ..until the whole near zero interst rate debt roll over ponzi scheme collapses as it surely will, we just cannot predict when. I genuinely fear for our futures should the local election results pan out in the general election. We can only act locally as individuals, and hope the majority see the light. NB. Most of the above I also posted on old Deva Chat Forty years of failure: how to challenge the narrative of Hard BrexitJeremy Gilbert 24 April 2017 www.opendemocracy.net/uk/jeremy-gilbert/forty-years-of-failure-how-to-challenge-narrative-of-hard-brexitGood post ......... i think! |
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Post by Derry Blue on May 6, 2017 18:34:33 GMT
Chris is an excellent local MP. The idiots are those supporting a hard Brexit. Little better are those ignoring policy and concentrating on personalities, Corbyn is a disorganised leader, but we are voting for a manefesto not an x-factor contestant! May is a socially awkward coward who will not debate, loses PMQS most weeks to someone she calls useless! Corbyn is a genuine principled politician that has been right on every important controversy since becoming an MP, that said, it is looking likely that New Ukip, the Tory party, are going to win the election with an increased majority, so unless the country comes to its senses, the Chester vote will make little national difference, its impact will be solely local. Issues that matter in Chester include Fracking, this environmental disaster in waiting theatens OUR city and its environs, our local council can do little to protect us, as the overruling of a planning rejection in Lancashire proves, Labour are pledged to ban it across the UK. The NHS; with the very future of the Countess under threat of relocation, added to the well known tactic of starve a public service of cash, point to the failures, while denying the real cause, then use them as an argument to invite in US health companies to carve it up for profit, to financialise the UKs greatest institution. Cui bono? The 1%! You can be certain that it wont be the 99% that is for sure. Then there is Brexit, Chester was a remain city, and many of us who voted Leave wanted a hard nosed economically realist Brexit that escapes from the neolib treaties, and investor protection 'trade' treaties, TTIP and CETA, BUT not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. We are leaving the Customs Union, for what? A WTO la la land utopia of trade deals around the globe. People should read what happened to Switzerland when it attempted to do a trade deal with China, it got strong armed. This is what Britain will face! ''The UK should focus on signing comprehensive and fair deals. In the China-Switzerland trade deal, as the much bigger partner, China has set the terms of trade. It is allowed more time to remove tariffs on Swiss goods –up to 15 years in some cases –than the Swiss, who have to let in Chinese goods tariff-free almost immediately. It is also limited in scope; it does not cover cars or financial services –two major export areas for the UK.'' www.cbi.org.uk/business-issues/uk-a...rade-deals-pdf/It makes me ashamed to be British when I see the way people have rushed to the hard Brexit barracades following the contrived 'row' between May and Junker, followed by the unnamed sources that claim the UK will face a large exit payment of up to 100 billion Euros, all pure speculation. But it has worked as intended, the people have been duped, and I believe the EU are in on it, they are in the pockets of corporations to the same degree as the Tories. The atmosphere reminds me of the overnight change in public opinion in 1983 after the Falklands War, but far worse. This xenophobic bile came from a small and unverified spat! Opinion polls were moving against May and her sloganised and cowardly campaign, then the 'row' and the nation goes mad. Locally and nationally everybody who is not a Tory or Ukip supporter MUST understand, Labour, New Labour, Lib Dem, Green, PC, SNP that they have to put aside tribal differences and vote for the candidate most likely to keep the Tories out. Hard Brexit will be a catastrophe, and a large Tory majority, Brexit aside, will be a government that will continue to enrich the corporate 1% further at the expense of the majority, it will stick with its extend and pretend economic policy, the 2008 was a blip mentality, in denial ..until the whole near zero interst rate debt roll over ponzi scheme collapses as it surely will, we just cannot predict when. I genuinely fear for our futures should the local election results pan out in the general election. We can only act locally as individuals, and hope the majority see the light. NB. Most of the above I also posted on old Deva Chat Forty years of failure: how to challenge the narrative of Hard BrexitJeremy Gilbert 24 April 2017 www.opendemocracy.net/uk/jeremy-gilbert/forty-years-of-failure-how-to-challenge-narrative-of-hard-brexitGood post ......... i think! 😀 |
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Post by Al on May 10, 2017 12:59:04 GMT
I see May is in favour of bringing back Fox Hunting as a 'sport'.
Maybe we should bring in something as well. Say Tory Hunting. Find a Tory, give them a 5 minute head start before we hunt them down in Challenger Tanks.
Tories are a special kind of vermin afterall..
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Post by dmcnally on May 10, 2017 19:25:48 GMT
Scrapping uni fees? Being in my first of two years of A-levels, I'll have a bit of that! Shame I'm therefore too young to vote...
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Post by lachelane on May 10, 2017 20:37:55 GMT
Scrapping uni fees? Being in my first of two years of A-levels, I'll have a bit of that! Shame I'm therefore too young to vote... So who pays for Universities then? Sounds like a good idea on the face of it until they have to get rid of the good academics and produce underperforming graduates. |
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Post by bluesince72 on May 10, 2017 21:44:34 GMT
it is a welcome policy, and one that would pay economic dividends in the future, not just in terms of education and social mobility , but in helping to slow rising private debt levels.
Universities would be funded in the way they were before tuition fees were first imposed(by Blair's New Labour), and education made a commodity rather than a right, from the general taxation pool, there are many areas that can be cut or taxed to pay for it.
We don't know yet know from where Labour propose to fund it as the manifesto is not yet published, but I hope they tax unearned and unproductive income, capital gains/inheritance/parasitic rentiers.
It would foolish and counterproductive to cut student or academic post numbers. The hypocritical politicians that brought in and then increased(Tories/Coalition) student fees got their university education FOR FREE!Yet they wish to pull up the drawbridge for others, or saddle those that want an education, but dont have wealthy parents, with mountains of debt. Some claim we can't afford it, well that is a lie, the economy has grown proportionally more since the universities were expanded starting in the 1960's than student numbers, despite numerous recessions and a financial crisis. It was a political choice, and an economically and socially damaging one, to put the nations young people into debt before they even start working for living.
A sound 'real' Labour policy that would benefit bright working class kids.
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Post by Lobster on May 11, 2017 18:03:16 GMT
Scrapping uni fees? Being in my first of two years of A-levels, I'll have a bit of that! Shame I'm therefore too young to vote... Shows how stupid it is that 16-year-olds don't get a vote. Things like Brexit, university fees, housing, jobs, these things are about to affect you more than anyone but you get no say on it. You're stuck with the politicians and ideas us dopey adults leave you with. |
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Post by dmcnally on May 11, 2017 18:05:23 GMT
Scrapping uni fees? Being in my first of two years of A-levels, I'll have a bit of that! Shame I'm therefore too young to vote... Shows how stupid it is that 16-year-olds don't get a vote. Things like Brexit, university fees, housing, jobs, these things are about to affect you more than anyone but you get no say on it. You're stuck with the politicians and ideas us dopey adults leave you with. Sadly there's a lack of people at my age who have a sufficient understanding of politics to make a well-informed decision and would probably just vote for the party who's name sounded the coolest. |
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Post by Lobster on May 11, 2017 18:19:54 GMT
Shows how stupid it is that 16-year-olds don't get a vote. Things like Brexit, university fees, housing, jobs, these things are about to affect you more than anyone but you get no say on it. You're stuck with the politicians and ideas us dopey adults leave you with. Sadly there's a lack of people at my age who have a sufficient understanding of politics to make a well-informed decision and would probably just vote for the party who's name sounded the coolest. So be it. That's 'the will of the people' as certain folks keep reminding us. Your vote is just as valid as anyone else's whatever your reasons for it. |
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Post by The Prof on May 11, 2017 21:10:59 GMT
Who's going to pay for students to goto uni then?
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Post by Oaks Blue on May 11, 2017 21:55:29 GMT
It still amazes me that people fall for labours 'leaked' policies before a general election.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that labour have a policy which opposes each tory policy which is in the headline news each week. These are policies that they hadn't made anyone aware of until the torys announced their policy on the matter, hmm yeah well done Corbyn... what a way to lead...
The political cycle will continue to do its merry go round for decades to come. Labour overspend and tory underspend trying to recover the mess left behind by the labour party. It's becoming boring and that's what switches most people off from voting either way.
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Post by Deva Chanter on May 11, 2017 21:59:48 GMT
It still amazes me that people fall for labours 'leaked' policies before a general election. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that labour have a policy which opposes each tory policy which is in the headline news each week. These are policies that they hadn't made anyone aware of until the torys announced their policy on the matter, hmm yeah well done Corbyn... what a way to lead... The political cycle will continue to do its merry go round for decades to come. Labour overspend and tory underspend trying to recover the mess left behind by the labour party. It's becoming boring and that's what switches most people off from voting either way. This post is so spectacularly uninformed I think it must be an attempt at trolling. |
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Post by Oaks Blue on May 11, 2017 22:11:38 GMT
It still amazes me that people fall for labours 'leaked' policies before a general election. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that labour have a policy which opposes each tory policy which is in the headline news each week. These are policies that they hadn't made anyone aware of until the torys announced their policy on the matter, hmm yeah well done Corbyn... what a way to lead... The political cycle will continue to do its merry go round for decades to come. Labour overspend and tory underspend trying to recover the mess left behind by the labour party. It's becoming boring and that's what switches most people off from voting either way. This post is so spectacularly uninformed I think it must be an attempt at trolling. Thanks for your feedback. P.S. your argument stinks. Are you Corbyn? |
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Post by Deva Chanter on May 11, 2017 22:27:45 GMT
This post is so spectacularly uninformed I think it must be an attempt at trolling. Thanks for your feedback. P.S. your argument stinks. Are you Corbyn? Given that you have just stated that Labour's 2017 manifesto has been leaked because they "only have a policy which opposes each Tory policy" when the Tories haven't even announced their manifesto (nor barely even a single policy), I'd be delighted for you to explain how you've come to that conclusion? |
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Post by Oaks Blue on May 11, 2017 22:33:54 GMT
Thanks for your feedback. P.S. your argument stinks. Are you Corbyn? Given that you have just stated that Labour's 2017 manifesto has been leaked because they "only have a policy which opposes each Tory policy" when the Tories haven't even announced their manifesto (nor barely even a single policy), I'd be delighted for you to explain how you've come to that conclusion? The comment about leaked policies was regarding the fact that some anonymous person has leaked the manifesto, which isn't a manifesto btw, earlier than they wanted it to be released. I believe this is bullshit and it was given to the media by someone in the labour party. The comment about the weekly news relates to each and every thing that tory party get called out on in the media is immediately jumped on by the most available labour party member, and they miraculously reveal what they would do if they got into power. It's boring and completely unsubstantiated crap. And everyone knows it Labour are finished as a party, and I can't wait for the country to realise it in June |
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Post by bluesince72 on May 11, 2017 23:50:13 GMT
That is nonsense, the Labour Party will survive win or lose. The manifesto policies are popular, check out Britain elects site on twitter twitter.com/britainelects?lang=en, Corbyn as a potential PM is not. Defeat would require a more organised and media savvy leader. How much traction Labour policy gets compared to JCs bad press we will see on June 8th. Policy not personality is what we should all vote on. However, instead of questioning Labour's policy agenda, why not answer some questions on Tory policy. How is a Hard Brexit going to benefit the country? Leaving the Customs Union is economic delusion of the most damaging sort. Labour support remaining in the Customs Union, a soft Brexit, economic pragmatism. How will fracking benefit this country? Tories will force it on the people of Chester as they did the people of Lancashire, its an environmental disaster waiting to happen, as it has been in the USA. How does wishing to bring back that barbarity Fox Hunting reflect on the moral character of May? The economic paradigm followed by the Tories, and New labour before them is Neo Clasical economics, unknown to most Tory voters, this is not the sound classical economic theories of Adam Smith, its a normative economic theory, that is it models how they think the economy SHOULD be not the economy as it actually IS. It has been dominant in the UK just TWICE, first following the unfortunate influence of John Bates Clark, in the decades leading up to the 1929 crash, with a malaise like today until WW2, and post 1979, a revivalist experiment that was empirically shown to be bust in 2008. Nothing has changed , we have an extend and pretend waiting game, desperatly hoping that the crash was a blip, it wasnt! If you seriously want to defend the Tory party you have to answer these questions, primarily a defence of neo classical economics. Labour is promising to move the economy away from that incoherant dogma. Re Adam Smith, Labour policy promise to build 100,000 units of social housing per year is a frontal assault on Adam Smith's own target when discussing free markets, for Smith a free market was a market freed from the unproductive burden of rentiers. Labour's programme would trash the parasitical private rental housing sector,lead thousands to be sold, bringing down house prices to levels most people could once again afford to buy. A bloody good thing to! Not to mention save us millions in housing benefit with those in reciept only having to claim the cost of social rent , not extortionate private rents, because there would social housing available to move to. |
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Post by Al on May 12, 2017 5:49:29 GMT
Given that you have just stated that Labour's 2017 manifesto has been leaked because they "only have a policy which opposes each Tory policy" when the Tories haven't even announced their manifesto (nor barely even a single policy), I'd be delighted for you to explain how you've come to that conclusion? The comment about leaked policies was regarding the fact that some anonymous person has leaked the manifesto, which isn't a manifesto btw, earlier than they wanted it to be released. I believe this is bullshit and it was given to the media by someone in the labour party. The comment about the weekly news relates to each and every thing that tory party get called out on in the media is immediately jumped on by the most available labour party member, and they miraculously reveal what they would do if they got into power. It's boring and completely unsubstantiated crap. And everyone knows it Labour are finished as a party, and I can't wait for the country to realise it in June So youre going to vote for the Tories then? Why? Don't tell me. "The country needs strong and stable leadership" Labour have actually been talking about these policies for weeks/months so it shouldn't surprise anyone what is in the draft manifesto. And ALL of it is achievable mate. Do you care to tell what part of their manifesto you don't agree with? An NHS correctly funded, education cuts reversed, a rise in Corporation Tax and closing loophole which encourage tax avoidance (something Mrs Mays husband knows all about), phasing in a rise in the minimum wage to £10 per hour. Would you benefit from that Oaksy? Or are "you alright Jack" so stuff the rest?? |
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Post by Oaks Blue on May 12, 2017 8:17:21 GMT
I have a problem with the whole 'manifesto' because i don't believe Labour will deliver ANY of it.
But you continue to be hooked into believing the nonsense that comes from your favourite party, afterall the country was in a really good position last time labour were in power wasn't it!
P.S. I am alright actually, that's because i play the game called life a little better than some, i don't see what any political party can do to make lazy people more money for the same effort... THAT is damaging to the economy trust me.
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Post by midfieldgeneral on May 12, 2017 9:42:10 GMT
Bring on the hardest possible Brexit and sit back and watch the UK, the economy and the Tory party implode. lol.
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Post by Al on May 12, 2017 10:35:34 GMT
I have a problem with the whole 'manifesto' because i don't believe Labour will deliver ANY of it. But you continue to be hooked into believing the nonsense that comes from your favourite party, afterall the country was in a really good position last time labour were in power wasn't it! P.S. I am alright actually, that's because i play the game called life a little better than some, i don't see what any political party can do to make lazy people more money for the same effort... THAT is damaging to the economy trust me. It was actually, bar the economic crash brought about by the banks which ended up being blamed upon by the Tories despite it being a GLOBAL problem.
I don't agree with everything on the manifesto by the way, and with my own personal circumstances I would possibly be better voting for a Conversative Government. I am alright Jack, but I recognise that the vast majority of working people stuck on Zero Hours contracts or minimum wage with no hope for a payrise (remember the living wage has been quoted as being £10p/h) need this. It's not about me or you, it's about everyone collectively having a better standard of living.
What are the Tories promising? Bringing back Fox Hunting and MORE Cuts to public services.
There is no comparison for the working man/woman. It has to be a vote for Labour.
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Post by Deva Chanter on May 12, 2017 15:39:15 GMT
I have a problem with the whole 'manifesto' because i don't believe Labour will deliver ANY of it. But you continue to be hooked into believing the nonsense that comes from your favourite party, afterall the country was in a really good position last time labour were in power wasn't it! P.S. I am alright actually, that's because i play the game called life a little better than some, i don't see what any political party can do to make lazy people more money for the same effort... THAT is damaging to the economy trust me. As opposed to the Tories? What exactly have they delivered over the last 7 years? Immigration below 100,000 a year - FAILED Austerity measures aimed at bringing substantial growth to the economy - FAILED Removal of the deficit - FAILED A reduction in national debt - FAILED What exactly have they succeeded at delivering? Apart from crippling public services, introducing heinous unsupported policies like the bedroom tax and giving the top 0.1% a massive tax cut? And what are they offering so far for 2017 - "girls and boys" jobs and the return of fox hunting and selective grammar schools. What a time to be alive. |
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Post by eyeswideopen on May 13, 2017 9:31:17 GMT
Shows how stupid it is that 16-year-olds don't get a vote. Things like Brexit, university fees, housing, jobs, these things are about to affect you more than anyone but you get no say on it. You're stuck with the politicians and ideas us dopey adults leave you with. Sadly there's a lack of people at my age who have a sufficient understanding of politics to make a well-informed decision and would probably just vote for the party who's name sounded the coolest. Sadly there is a lack of people at any age who have a sufficient understanding of politics to make a well informed decision too, for every young person voting for the party with the coolest name, I give you ten people fed horseshit by the likes of the Daily Mail and that rag that is banned around most of Liverpool ( come on Britain don't stop there) TV doesn't help either, Theresa May appearing on the one show talking about her shoes won't fool me what her parties policies have in store for the poorest and most vulnerable people in this country, but you can bet your life Doris from Suffolk has just rubber stamped her vote because she is so in touch with her people. i must have also missed the packs or foxes going around the streets terrorising the suburbs in numbers never experienced before to bring back the need to rip them to shreds with a pack of hounds on a Sunday morning, or am I being cynical thinking that the hooray henries are getting a bit twitchy. Perhaps the next step is to team up with UKIP and any Johnny foreigners left on good old Blighty soil could be chased around fields too for a jolly old jape. |
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Post by Lobster on May 15, 2017 6:05:43 GMT
Then there is Brexit, Chester was a remain city, and many of us who voted Leave wanted a hard nosed economically realist Brexit that escapes from the neolib treaties, and investor protection 'trade' treaties, TTIP and CETA, BUT not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. We are leaving the Customs Union, for what? A WTO la la land utopia of trade deals around the globe. People should read what happened to Switzerland when it attempted to do a trade deal with China, it got strong armed. This is what Britain will face! I don't know about this bs72. I always find your posts interesting but you often seem to talk as though the referendum was a questionnaire. It was just one question - in or out - and the rest of the questions were ones to ask yourself. I saw some merits of voting to leave, but then I quashed them straightaway with the realisation that it would probably be left to a hard right wing Conservative government (or possibly a Labour government whose official line is that they didn't want it) to handle it. Was that really ever going to work? When I've heard people explain why they voted Leave, very rarely have I heard mentions of TTIP, trade treaties etc. More often than not I've heard arguments about straight and curved bananas or too many shops run by Polish people. Studies like this one - blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/05/04/why-britain-voted-to-leave-and-what-boris-johnson-had-to-do-with-it/ - suggest that immigration and even an affinity with Boris and Farage were the main reasons people voted Leave. 'Hard Brexit' is what people seem to want, and sadly I fear this will be reflected on June 8th. |
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Post by Rio Doherty on May 15, 2017 21:16:41 GMT
Went to my local barbers today at Kingsway shops then I walked past an ITV Granada Reports van which must've travelled here to broadcast the build up to the election. I've heard that they are travelling across the North West to different communities to ask different people what they think of the election. Puts Kingsway in the spotlight then 😄.
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Post by marner93 on May 15, 2017 21:26:37 GMT
The biggest thing to happen there since Danny Murphy went to school there..
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Post by bluesince72 on May 15, 2017 22:47:04 GMT
Then there is Brexit, Chester was a remain city, and many of us who voted Leave wanted a hard nosed economically realist Brexit that escapes from the neolib treaties, and investor protection 'trade' treaties, TTIP and CETA, BUT not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. We are leaving the Customs Union, for what? A WTO la la land utopia of trade deals around the globe. People should read what happened to Switzerland when it attempted to do a trade deal with China, it got strong armed. This is what Britain will face! I don't know about this bs72. I always find your posts interesting but you often seem to talk as though the referendum was a questionnaire. It was just one question - in or out - and the rest of the questions were ones to ask yourself. I saw some merits of voting to leave, but then I quashed them straightaway with the realisation that it would probably be left to a hard right wing Conservative government (or possibly a Labour government whose official line is that they didn't want it) to handle it. Was that really ever going to work? When I've heard people explain why they voted Leave, very rarely have I heard mentions of TTIP, trade treaties etc. More often than not I've heard arguments about straight and curved bananas or too many shops run by Polish people. Studies like this one - blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/05/04/why-britain-voted-to-leave-and-what-boris-johnson-had-to-do-with-it/ - suggest that immigration and even an affinity with Boris and Farage were the main reasons people voted Leave. 'Hard Brexit' is what people seem to want, and sadly I fear this will be reflected on June 8th. I certainly never intended it to be thought of as a questionaire, but that is a point I was trying to make, in a simple binary question there is no way of expressing qualifications, and I have always opposed plebecites for exactly the reason you highlight. They are a method that is totally unsuitable for making descisions on such a complex and nuanced question. We have a representative democracy in Britain, referenda are a form of direct democracy, and an abdication of duty by spineless politicians who need to cover their own backs by asking the public to decide for them on controversial constitutional issues. In the case of the EU Ref they also held the vote at the worst possible time, a time when we have global economic dislocation, and an EU that is facing a potentially terminal poltical crisis. Once the vote was called, because I consider voting a civic duty, I had to make a choice and rationalise it. I banged on about the neolib EU Treaties and the Trade/Investor protection agreements CETA/TTIP in every time I got into a debate or discussion, they were always central to the Lexit case for enabling independent economic and industrial policies. Nobody really knows what percentage of Leave voters were motivated by what issue. The result has been hijacked by a bunch of far right nationalists and their appologists, and the leave votes lumped together and used as though it were solid evidence that all of the 52% wanted hard Brexit, or that the vote was simple a choice between remain or a clean exit, it wasn't, and what is more the Leave campaign did not claim it as such. While this kind of hijacking always likely to occur whatever the result, and that a majority clearly do want political independence from the EU. I would wager that the vast majority of the electorate could not even explain what the Customs Union is, and why EU membership is not necessery in order to be a part of it, and why opting out of it is such a reckless gamble with our economic future. Sadly economic issues (and with them Labour's hopes of winning) are being sidelined in the GE, identity politics have triumped, something the left must take a lot of blame for, as they have often been guilty running campaigns in which they made issues of identity its dominant themes, and have done at least since the 1980s, without ever considering that the right could one day turn the tables and deploy the most powerful and divisive weapons of identity politics; nationalism, xenophobia, jingoism and lingering sentimentality for the 'glorious global trading of Empire years' against them with devistating effects. This is from an American perspective but relavent here too - How Identity Politics Is Destroying The Left And Being Used By The 'Alt-Right 'http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/lauryn-oates/identity-politics-alt-right_b_14481006.html I have to agree with you about the election result, though I still find it beyond belief that the country is trusting a socially awkward PM, who finds any kind of debate, or thinking on her feet totally beyond her capabilities, with the complex Brexit negotiations. It wont end well! The 2022 GE will sweep these deluded idiots out of office, but what kind of country will be left by that time ? |
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